Syno community

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 29 Jan 2004, 04:03

Hi everyone,

I have recently set-up/cycled a 3' tank, and I was hoping to set it up as a tank of synodontis. The synos that I was hoping to keep a Feather Fin Syno , Yellow Marbled Syno and maybe a couple of others ( any suggestions welcome) in this tank. When/if they get too big they can be moved to a 4' tank that is already set-up (hopefully I may get a 6' tank soon).
My questions are, would a tank full of synos work (not too much aggresion) and, what sort of numbers I could keep in this tank?

Cheers, CatBrat.

Post by **Silurus** » 29 Jan 2004, 09:57

If you provide enough hiding spaces, here are a few others to consider:

I'm not suggesting that you put all of these in a 3' tank, though (ideally a syno community of the larger species would require a far larger tank). Just food for thought.

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 30 Jan 2004, 06:04

Thanks for the help Silurus, but unfortunatly the only syno out if those 3 that I have heard of in New Zealand is the synodontis schoutedeni (I haven't seen one but saw it on a fish list). We don't have the greatest selection of catfish over here. But never mind I will keep looking to see if I can find any smaller synos, if not I will have to persuade my mum and dad to buy me a 6'+ tank (I will keep dreaming) and then get some bigger ones.

Cheers, CatBrat.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 30 Jan 2004, 20:42

Maybe you could post us a list of what you CAN get, and we'll discuss if it's possible in one tank, and how to make such a tank set-up?

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 31 Jan 2004, 01:57

The synos that I know I can get in New Zealand are,

Synodontis angelicus (I have one - 13cm), Synodontis eupterus (I have one - 14cm), Synodontis nigriventris, Synodontis schoutedeni, Synodontis multipunctatus and, Synodontis decorus. I think we may get a couple of others from time to time, but on very rare occasions.

Cheers, CatBrat.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 31 Jan 2004, 09:44

Well, then we have to work with three of four species; two are out for the following reasons:

multipunctatus is a Tanganyikan shoaling fish, wich would require buying a shoal (5 or more) and turning the waterparameters into Tanganyika-parameters (hard, alcali water)

Decorus is out as well, as this particular species is too docile and combining it with angelicus will make it truly miserable.
I've seen a 6" angelicus beat the crap out of three 10" decorus in a 2 meter 500 liters tank...and on other occasions too (importers tanks, big tanks in German LFS) I've seen plenty to say, it won't work.

Nigriventris might work for a weird reason. Quite often, belligerent big Syno's tend to ignore very small Syno's as long as they're a very different species AND as long as you keep the big as an individual and the small as a group!

NEVER attempt to keep just a single tiny Syno, and a single big bossy one...it'll end miserably.

Eupterus and schoutedeni are tough Syno's, able to cope with angelicus, I think.
There might be a risk with singles of both schoutedeni and angelicus however; both are fiercely territorial, of a size (only after many years will the angelicus get truly huge and pass the schoutedeni; and grow 1 1/2 times as big) so you might get a very nasty tennismatch in your tank if you catch my drift...

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 31 Jan 2004, 09:55

Thanks Sidguppy,

The angelicus and the feather-fin are together in a 4' community tank at the moment. Both synos seem quite docile and they mostly leave each other alone. Anyway, I could move the feather-fin into the 3' tank and leave the angelicus where it is. If I did this could I get a schoutedeni and put it in with the feather-fin in the 3' tank? Would this be likly to cause any problems?

Cheers, CatBrat.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 01 Feb 2004, 13:10

hmmm
you got a perfectly working match with angelicus?
I wouldn't change a thing!

If you're really bent on getting that schoutedeni, I'd put that one on his own in the 3 feet tank. leave the eupterus with the angelicus!

disturbing the setup might result in unwanted behaviour; and an angelicus wich behaves in a two-big-syno-setup is a rare thing indeed.....

You MIGHT think about adding 5 nigriventris to that setup, if they're true nigriventris and not baby nigrita's, wich is often the case. A group of wee Syno's will probably be ignored by the big two.
Make sure there are plenty hide-outs (nigriventris likes plants with horizontal leaves for example), and don't cram too many fish in that tank.

wich fish -besides Syno's- are in there?

Schoutedeni's are just as "nice" to others as angelicus usually is; he'll be fine in that 3 footer (although IMO it's a big fish in a small tank) with no extra Syno's added. It's a tough Syno, as Syno's go.

troi · Post by **troi** » 02 Feb 2004, 05:39

[quote="CatBrat"]Thanks for the help Silurus, but unfortunatly the only syno out if those 3 that I have heard of in New Zealand is the synodontis schoutedeni (I haven't seen one but saw it on a fish list). We don't have the greatest selection of catfish over here.[/quote]

I have three adult S. eupterus ( feather fins), one adult S. decorus, two juvenile S. decorus and a few other fish in my 100 US Gallon (five foot) tank. Everyone gets along well enough, save feather-fin squabbles after a water change. Before I added the juveniles recently, the decorus stayed in caves all day and only came out a bit at night and feather fins bickered a bit, played and ran off to seperate caves. When I added the youngesters, the adult decorus started coming out more often and staying out longer, but still alone. I saw less of the feather fins and they isolated more from each other.

A few weeks later, all three S. decorus started swimming together, sometimes with three "faces" and three while bellies lined up at the the fromt of the tank watching me, sometimes swimming in unison. Now, after midnight, all six synos swim together a small group. They seem to be semi-schooling.

The need a larger tank, at least a six foot or 180 us gal. one to provide more swimming space and to handle the bio load. These fish grow fast.

S. decorus is a peacable fish and bearutiful. My big one talks to me, well, bawlsme out, if I change more than 25 per cent of the water at one time.

I knew a guy in Austrailia who had at least one. Do New Zealand and Australia have similar import policies or happen to draw from the same distributors. The feather fins and the decorus is a great grouping.

troi

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 02 Feb 2004, 08:56

( tori)Do New Zealand and Australia have similar import policies or happen to draw from the same distributors.

I don't really know much about the import policies of New Zealand and Australia, but from what I have heard Australia is quite strict on what gets imported. My guess for this would be because they don't want tropical fish to be released in to the wild there and become another pest species that changes the balence of things. Here in New Zealand released into the wild it would be near impossible for them to survive. This is because of the very cold tempretures in our rivers/lakes.
I have no idea who the distributors are in New Zealand, sorry.

(sidguppy)hmmm
you got a perfectly working match with angelicus?
I wouldn't change a thing!

I got my angelicus around one and a half years ago and my fether fin nine or ten months ago. The angelicus was about twice the size of the fether fin when I got it, but the angelicus never bothered it. This is my first angelicus and it has always been very peaceful with everything. Are they normaly terrotorial/aggressive?[/quote]

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 02 Feb 2004, 09:04

yes, they are.
synodontis angelicus is one of THE most territorial Synodontis species and it's temper is legendary. (other famous fanatical Syno's include nigromaculatus from Tanganyika, the big schall, the pretty ornatipinnis and...schoutedeni!)

but docile specimens do come around too; it seems you have one.

decorus isn't suitable for you, as they grow much faster than Angelicus. Both species reach 1 foot in length, but most often angelicus just sticks at 8"or so, whereas almost all decorus seem to go for those 12".
and decorus -as already said- is a semi-shoaler too....

muridae · Post by **muridae** » 02 Feb 2004, 14:26

Interestingly enough, my angelicus is also a pretty peaceful fish. It's in a shamefully small tank with a eupterus while I set up the 6' long tank. The angelicus is a bit more active than the eupterus, which occasionally annoys the eupterus, but they haven't bullied each other and everyone is eating. Good to know I may be in for trouble if I add another one or two angelicus, as I had wanted to do.

sidguppy · Post by **sidguppy** » 02 Feb 2004, 14:41

yep.
they're notoriously bad when kept as duo or small group.
7 or more will be a stunning display however, and I've seen open structured tanks with such a group.

BIG tanks, though.....

Post by **Dinyar** » 02 Feb 2004, 16:58

For years, we kept an S. angelicus with other Synos in 40 and 55 gal tanks. The fish was absolutely homicidal, mercilessly battering other black Synos in the tank. About a year ago, we put it in our 125 gallon Tanganyika tank. It has acted very docile and peaceful since.

This leads me to two theories:

First, S. angelicus is more likely to violently express its territorial instincts in smaller tanks.

Second, S. angelicus is more likely to act violently with Syno spp. that look similar to it.

Dinyar

angel · Post by **angel** » 03 Feb 2004, 11:10

We have an S. Angelicus in a 120L tank (wierd dimentions though, 5'x14"x12"). Tried to keep other catfish with her but her serial killing behaviour came out. She beat up 6 upsidedown synos so much that they had to be removed, chased and killed two Panda Corrys and objected strongly to the S. American bumblebee catfish (that was funny to watch - the angelicus would push the bumblebee around with her nose then sit on it). The only catfish that we can keep are some ottos... so far anyway. Oddly enough, she is scared of our neon tetras and will swim away whenever they come close! It's even more amusing 'cause she is about 5" and the neons are about 1/2". Great fish though, despite its schizophrenic behaviour.