New tank questions

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 28 Jan 2004, 20:07

Hi! I have a 33-ish gallon tank that I would like to move the fish that are in my two 10 gallons into. They have the same pH and water perimeters, so I think they'll be okay. I was thinking about putting a Marineland Emperor 280 filter on it. Does anyone think this is big enough? I think I read it was good for tanks up to 50 gallons, but I just wanted other people's input. Also, what wattage of heater do I need in the tank, or can I run my two small heaters at the same time?

Does anyone know the formula for taking the area of the tank and finding out how many gallons it really is? I'm just guessing it's in the 30-ish range, but I'd like to know for sure.

Any other tips/things to think about? Any and all input is welcome! Thank you!

CatBrat · Post by **CatBrat** » 29 Jan 2004, 04:24

If you know the dimensions of your tank you can use this site, http://www.fishindex.com/, to work out its volume. Just go to the tools and then to the calculators part.

Cheers,CatBrat.

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 29 Jan 2004, 05:24

Fantastic, thank you! I don't have the actual tank measurements on hand, but I entered some guesstimate inches to find out area/gallons and it seems like I may actually have something more like a 40-ish gallon tank. Excellent, that's even better!

kateswan · Post by **kateswan** » 29 Jan 2004, 13:35

What kind of fish are you putting into the tank?
IMO -- I'd choose the Emperor 400 for anything over
20 gals. -- but I go to the 'more is better' side of
filtration in my tanks.

If the tank is closer to 40 gal., do you have the space
for a small canister filter?

Kathy S

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 29 Jan 2004, 16:14

I might have room? I would be putting three cherry barbs, two khuli loaches, one red phantom, one neon, one oto (would like a couple more), nine 1" cories, one 4" pleco, three tiger barbs (have one now, but would like to get two more), and two USD cats. If these fish are not all good for one tank, some of them can stay in a 10 gallon. I'd just like to have a bigger tank set up to accomodate the fish. Could I get two or three more otos for this tank?

Can you suggest a small canister filter that might be good for a 40-ish gallon tank? Would I need to use an over-the-back one then at all? Are the Fluval and Eheim filters good? How much room would I need for a canister filter? I haven't seen one in real life and the lfs doesn't sell them, so this is something I'd have to order. Thank you for your help!

Post by **Rusty** » 29 Jan 2004, 19:26

Could I get two or three more otos for this tank?

You could put as many as you want in. A swarm of 10 or so would be very neat. However, IME large groups do best in a tank with live plants.

Are the Fluval and Eheim filters good?

I've used both the Fluval 303 (the predecessor to the 304) and an Eheim 2215 on a 40 gallon, and both did the job, but the Eheim is miles ahead of the Fluval in terms of user friendly-ness and ease of use. I would go with the Eheim, even if it is pricier.

How much room would I need for a canister filter?

If you have a cabinet under the tank, you should have more than enough space. Just make sure you leave a gap at the back of the tank to run the tubing.

Would I need to use an over-the-back one then at all?

No, you won't., but you may need to run a powerhead or something similar if you want more water movement, since the canisters do not agitate the surface as much as some of the power filters.

Rusty

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 29 Jan 2004, 19:57

Thanks for the info, Rusty! I will start my research on the Eheim 2215 then. I am going to see if my dad could weld me a table for the tank, because otherwise I don't know what it could sit on that could support it and I don't have enough room for a cabinet or something. (Also, it would probably be free if he made it, too.

) Is the tubing and the set-up difficult on these canister filters? I get some aquarium product catalogs and as far as I can tell, these filters look like large batteries or something. What are on the input/output ends that are in the tank? I haven't found a picture that clearly shows the canister filter in use. If I was using a canister filter, could I set up my two Marineland Penguin minis to act as the water agitators?

I would love a huge swarm of otos, except their costliness here prevents me from doing that! I think at the lfs they are $7, which for an oto seems quite extravagant when you can also get a cory for that much. Not to say that otos are less of a fish than a cory, but more people will buy cories than otos here, so they should be less. I'm the one that asked for the lfs to stock otos in the first place, so they might give me a deal on a lot. They are all healthy-looking and fat. I think the same first batch they ordered for me is still the batch that's in the oto tank. I think they've been trying to sell plecos to get rid of algae. Who knows if people are being told how big they get, though?

Anyway, thanks for the help and I'll start my research!

kateswan · Post by **kateswan** » 30 Jan 2004, 13:37

Fiskars -

I'm using Eheim 2217s and a Fluval 404 right now.
I agree that the Eheims seem to be a bit more well-made
than the Fluval, and I like their tubing better ... but
I have to say I like the interior arrangement of the Fluval
better than the Eheim, and it is a little easier to clean.

The Eheims have layers of bioball type media,
circular filters (both floss-type & carbon). The layers
are separated from each other by the filters.
So if you want to rinse everything really well, there
is a certain amount of jumbled media.
But that's not a biggie. The circular filters aren't cheap,
but don't have to be replaced as often as a conventional
over the tank type, and I've read here that often people
make their own out of floss.

The Fluval has interior baskets that lift out easily, and
you can fill with a variety of media. It also has a
vertical tray with foam blocks for mechanical filtration.
This filter is very easy to clean. It is noisier than the
Eheim, and the hoses are ugly, but it does a good
job for the bucks.

What I'd really like is an Eheim with the interior baskets!

Both filters are easy to set up and maintain,
and do a good job.

Kathy S

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 31 Jan 2004, 04:44

Thanks for the info, Kateswan!

It's good to hear from someone who has used both of these filters. After what I've read online I think I would definitely like to get the Eheim 2215. I haven't found much bad stuff people have said about them. I still don't understand how the ends of the input/output tubes are and whether or not I could still have an over the back filter to supply water movement. What do you think?

Edit at 11:07 pm Alaska time: WHOO HOO!!! My boyfriend and I went to the storage unit to measure the tank, got the measurements and when I used the calculator on fishindex.com I actually have a 53 gallon tank! This is WAY better than I thought!!! Also, I talked to my dad and he's going to weld me a stand! This is completely fabulous, way better than I thought, and I am just thrilled.

Edit at 10:37 am Alaska time: How do you pronounce "Eheim"? I want to make sure I'm saying it right. Is it "Eh-haim" or "Eh-heim" or what? Also, if there is anyone in the Pacific Northwest that knows of a lfs that carries these filters?

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 01 Feb 2004, 00:18

I am going to need a hood for this aquarium, but I am not finding any that are about 36"x16". Does anyone know of a manufacturer that might make something this size?

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 04 Feb 2004, 13:33

Keep in mind that Otos are sensitive to tank conditions. It has been known to have some die off for no reason. I've experienced that myself and I keep my tanks well maintained (weekly 20-30% water changes/cleaning, test water every mid week of cleaning, no chemicals used around tanks, no fish harassment of fish, etc.). At $7 a pop by you, they would be an expensive investment.

Regarding the hood, do you know what brand your tank maybe? I'm assuming that it might be Oceanic Systems, since it's a 53 gallon tank. They're logo should be on the tank so you can tell. They would sell hoods for their tanks. Otherwise, if you're unsure, you can go to a glass company and get 2 pieces of glass cut. You can also get the hinge and little handle for it at some aquarium sites. There's a little plastic piece that you can buy at cut out room for tubes, wires, etc. which can be purchased at any LFS.

Some LFSs carry the Eheim (pronounced EEHYM) in their shop, otherwise, you can order them online. If you have the money, I would get the model with the built in heater in the filter. This helps eliminate having a heater in the tank, which makes viewing inside the tank even a little better since all you would have inside is the filter intake and outlet, and the wire for the thermometer. The models with the built in heaters are the 2126 and 2128. It's always recommended to go above the size of your tank when choosing filters. I use a 2128 (designed for 180 gallons) on my 55 gallon tank. The current is not too strong, even for my Angelfish, who supposedely don't like strong current. I even added 2 powerheards to increase the flow.

Good luck on your tank. If this is your first tank, don't forget to cycle.

It takes at least 3 weeks to cycle a tank properly.

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 04 Feb 2004, 16:26

Thank you so much for replying! Yay! I was thinking I'd been given up on. *L* j/k

Okay, so after I combine my two 10 gallons I'll wait a little while for the water conditions to stabilize before adding otos. I was at the lfs last night and the otos there are so fat and way longer/bigger than mine is. Mine seems very happy, though. She's stayed the same size since I've had her and I bought her at the beginning of September. She's gotten fat from eating, so I suppose that's a good thing!

I don't know what brand my tank is. My boyfriend originally bought it for me to put a small tortoise in, but there are no stickers or markings anywhere on the tank. I'm not even sure if it was made to be a fish tank because all of the sides are protected by a thick extra layer of metal? But it holds water fine, it's just that it might not be as pretty as a normal tank might. I found a hood at the lfs that would probably work. It's just 3" shorter from front to back than it needs to be, but getting a piece of glass to fit it is a good idea. I'll definitely need to get something because I'd like to get some marbled hatchetfish and my last one was suicidal. It jumped out while my grandma was watching my fish while I was on vacation. Imagine when I came back and couldn't find my fish! *L* I'll look up Oceanic Systems on the net and see if maybe one of their hoods would fit my tank.

So it's EEheim, eh? That's good to know!

I didn't want to start calling people to inquire about the filter and be constantly pronouncing it wrong. I'll check out the 2126 and -28 when I go on my lunch break today at work. Speaking of work, I'm supposed to be there in about five minutes, so I need to go! Thank you for all the help, Crazie.Eddie!

MackIntheBox · Post by **MackIntheBox** » 04 Feb 2004, 17:05

Fiskars the Whiskers wrote:It's just 3" shorter from front to back than it needs to be

Sounds perfect, you wont even have to cut it to fit any filters, heaters, hoses and wires that might be going into the tank

hehe

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 04 Feb 2004, 17:38

*L* That's true! Good point! Is that enough room for the hatchetfish to ignore, though? They're the only fish I really worry about. I don't want them getting any wild ideas.

But that would actually work really well and then I wouldn't have to break out the little cut-out places in the hood and it could stay in one piece. Man, that's a great idea!

Edit at 9:43 a.m.: Well, I had some time online to look for the 2128 and the 2126 and the only websites I can find for them are European. I'm taking a Russian class, but that still didn't help me with one of the pages. *L* They also look fairly expensive, but I really don't know how euros compare to the dollar.

MackIntheBox · Post by **MackIntheBox** » 05 Feb 2004, 00:49

I tried to find some online info and had a hard time too

sorry i couldnt find anything. I will see if I can do another search from home after work. I will also go to my LFS next chance I get and see what the prices are there

here is a nifty site with a conversion tool so you know how much a euro is worth in US currency, or any other currency for that matter

its from Yahoo so I trust it more than the others i saw ;)

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 05 Feb 2004, 00:57

Thanks for helping, Yashmack! I tried to go to the currency converter, but I, too, am at work and realized that Yahoo is blocked on our system.

So I will have to wait until I go home to check it out. Work! It takes away all of my fun time!

Edit: Well, it's 5:00 here and I just spent the last half an hour calling around Alaska looking for Eheim filters. No one knows what I'm talking about.

Edit #2: Why do practically only European countries love the Eheim? Or does it just seem like that to me? The most sense-making site I found was http://www.zoobuy.de where the filter is $95.17. Is there a European site that would take dollars out there, or must it be converted?

Crazie.Eddie · Post by **Crazie.Eddie** » 05 Feb 2004, 09:11

You can order the Eheim from http://www.aquariumpros.com. Even though it's not listed on their online store, you can request it.

Regarding your hood, you can buy a plastic piece that clips on to the hood. You can find this at any LFS. You can cut out openings just big enough for the tubes and wires, so the hatchetfish will not jump out. FYI, when fish jump out, that means they are not happy with their environment (ex water conditions). Make sure the water parameters are fine and you should have no problems.

kateswan · Post by **kateswan** » 05 Feb 2004, 13:27

Two on-line places I order from have the Eheim filters.
drsfosterandsmith.com (US)
and
bigalsonline.com (US & Canada)

Eheim filters *are not* inexpensive anywhere! LOL!

Kathy S

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 05 Feb 2004, 16:22

Woo! I checked out http://www.aquariumpros.com and they have the filter listed! I'm going to email them about a quote for shipping charges to Alaska. The trouble with FedEx and UPS is that since I'm on an island there is no ground shipping. Shipping by FedEx or UPS is SO expensive.

The last time I ordered from http://www.drsfostersmith.com they charged me over $20 to ship my Marineland Bio-Wheel Minis, whereas the shipping should have been around $7 for the weight for Priority Mail. I don't mind them adding in a service charge, but when the shipping and handling is twice the price of my item, that's what I didn't care for. And they said they would ship it UPS, which is why I thought shipping was so high, but after it still wasn't here for a week and a half I decided to call and have it tracked and that's when they told me it had really been sent Priority Mail. I really don't want to order from them again. *gripe gripe*

But I digress. I have read a few places that hatchetfish are known jumpers, so I'm not really thinking it was water conditions. I remember my water conditions at that time were fine and that's what confused me, so I read up on them and found out they jump if they think they are being threatened. I don't know how threatened he could have felt by living with khulis and cories, but maybe they taunted him a little too much.

"Stupid top swimmer! What? You're too good to swim at the bottom with us?"

Kateswan, thanks for the links. I'll try http://www.bigalsonline.com since I have my gripe about Fosters & Smith. If they had told me from the beginning that it was going to be sent Priority Mail instead of UPS, like the guy said, I wouldn't be so upset. And I might order from them again and call for a shipping quote first for something as heavy and expensive as a filter. I knew it would be an expensive investment, but it's the shipping that adds up to me!

bobcatfish · Post by **bobcatfish** » 07 Feb 2004, 21:47

hatchfish leap out of water in wild to avoid predators any sudden movement/flash of color will trigger this automatic reaction

bobcatfish · Post by **bobcatfish** » 07 Feb 2004, 22:11

forgot to say on a nature progam it showed hatchfish leaping 12 inch plus out of water striaght up

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 08 Feb 2004, 02:37

Wow! *L* Well, hopefully if I get some again they will decide not to do that. I'll tread very lightly around the tank and keep the lid on at all times. Hopefully they wouldn't decide something like a water change was very flashy and would stay calm.

What crazy little fish.

In fantastic, great, wonderful news...I just bought an new Eheim 2215 filter off EBay! Yaaaayyyy!!! It was $85 with Buy It Now. Shipping to AK was $34, but that's okay since the filter was so cheap. And I got a hood for my tank and tried it on and it fits! And my two Marineland filters also will fit on the tank to be my water agitators. Whoo! It's a great day for fish at my house, even though they won't know how great it is until their stand is made and the tank set up. Now I need to buy a bunch of plants. I'm going to stick with plastic/fabric ones for now until my lfs gets some better-looking plants. The ones they have now are kinda brown and not very good-looking.

So now I'm poor until March, which is when I was planning on buying the filter, but I couldn't not take advantage of this!

Post by **Dinyar** » 08 Feb 2004, 04:31

You could have bought a brand new Eheim 2215 Plus (newer model) from Big Al's and had it delivered for less. If you had any problems, they would have replaced it immediately. You don;t get that kind of service on Ebay, even after paying more.

Dinyar

Fiskars the Whiskers · Post by **Fiskars the Whiskers** » 08 Feb 2004, 06:10

Well, I'm happy with what I bought and that's what matters to me. Thanks for your input, though.

I did go to Big Al's and there were quite a few things that I liked, so I ordered one of their catalogs.