Crossbreeding among Loricariidae, is it possible

[Yann]

I would be surprised if a zebra pl*co would crossbreed with any of your other fish, including the so-called "chocolate zebra". In nature, animals of different species in the same genus often occur sympatrically (in the same habitat), but that does not cause them to lose their species identity. Quite the contrary, because attempts at interspecific mating have a high cost (sex is hard work, as every couch potato knows, and why bother if it ain't gonna lead to anything?), there is strong selection pressure against it. (This is true even of related species that would never meet in nature.)

Most of the crossbreeds that you see in the hobby are the work of unscrupulous breeders. Animals are pretty scrupulous about preferring sex with their own kind.

Dinyar

¨Well about two or three month ago I had an accidental crossbred in one of my tank!
A male L66 spawn with a female L136 despite having member of the opposite sex for both genus. I just kept one of the fry to make it grow and have it as a curiosity. I am also making pic of it so it will be reference and people would know how one would look.

The thing is when such thing occuring is not to spread the fish around , not even to give one or more to other person.

I was very surprise as both fish have a very different colour pattern, size and catching place.

Cheers
Yann

[ClayT101]

Just curious, but why is everyone so against cross breeding (not that I've tried it), but if 2 fish breed by themselves and the offspring live, whats wrong with it. Dogs do it all the time. Thats why there are all of those different types of dogs. Who knows, if a choclate zebra and a zebra pleco cross breed, it may be the most beautiful fish out there.

[Yann]

Well!
Ther is "nothing wrong" as long it is natural and occuring in the wild with two species that live together, but it should not be duplicate in aquarium as there are far enough species that are beautiful and interesting enough to please everyone.
As hobbyist we should care about keeping and breeding fish as close to the natural strain as possible.
We shall not think we are superior to the nature and act like God on it!!!
Cheers
Yann

[Simon1929]

I don't have ant intension of cross-breeding, I was just want to make sure this din;t happen. As it is they are gong to be in seperate tanks.

Simon

[coelacanth]

Dogs do it all the time. Thats why there are all of those different types of dogs.

A cross between two breeds of dogs is not a hybrid. They are both domesticated forms of the same species, and all domestic dogs are able to interbreed freely (unless size becomes an issue!).
A cross between two species of fish however is a hybrid, and there are real genetic reasons why this should be avoided. It may not appear in the F1 generation, but somewhere down the line there are likely to be problems with sterility or other dead-end genetic combinations. Should these fish get out into the marketplace with no details of their origins, they could cause a lot of confusion.

[Dinyar]

Well said, Pete. Intentionally crossbreeding fish is a definite no-no for responsible aquarists.

Not to take away from this point, but I tend to think that a lot of mythology has built up about how you shouldn't keep fish from the same genus together lest they cross-breed. I don't believe this happens easily, because organisms (humans are an exception!) don't want to waste their gametes. In nature, closely related species often school together -- Cyprichromis and Paracyprichromis spp. for example, or different Corydoras, to choose a catfish example -- but manage perfectly well to recognize and mate only with their own kind. Without going into too much detail, this general mechanism (of recognizing and mating only with one's own kind) is at the heart of sexual speciation.

Well about two or three month ago I had an accidental crossbred in one of my tank!
A male L66 spawn with a female L136 despite having member of the opposite sex for both genus.

I find that pretty amazing (not that I doubt it). Anyone else have a similar experience?

Dinyar

[coelacanth]

[quote="yannfulliquet
¨Well about two or three month ago I had an accidental crossbred in one of my tank!
A male L66 spawn with a female L136 despite having member of the opposite sex for both genus. I just kept one of the fry to make it grow and have it as a curiosity. I am also making pic of it so it will be reference and people would know how one would look.
I was very surprise as both fish have a very different colour pattern, size and catching place. [/quote]

Do you have pictures that you could send now? I would be absolutely fascinated to see this anomaly!
The clue here may be that if they are fish from widely separated geographical areas. As with Corydoras, it may be that species that never encounter one another are far less likely to have developed genetic or behavioural barriers to prevent hybridization.

[Yann]

Hi!

Yes I have taken pictures, I still need to bring the film to the last one before sending it for developping.
When they had absorb the yolk say, they did look like normal L66 offspring but since growing up the colouration as quite change and now it is a intermediate colouration. The one I have kept is now at around 1.25-1.5 inch long.
As soon as I got the pictures developp I 'll post one!
Cheers
Yann

[Dinyar]

Yann,

Not that I'm questioning your credibility by any means, but are you 100% SURE that this is a hybrid between L66 and L136 and not just fry that don't look like their parents?

L66 and L136 don't look at all alike. Even we dumb humans can easily tell them apart. Moreover, addressing Pete's point, afaik, they both come from the rio Xingu.

Dinyar

[Yann]

Well
I am not 100% sure as I did not see the egg laying, the thing is I caught the same female and the same male together several times in the past, I have always check that they would not stay together for more than several hours!
I noticed after a week that the male had not left his cave, (I do check my tanks many times a day!) so I believed the mother is the female L136, plus I was able to take out around 20 eggs, and L66 female should make about 45 of them!
Cheers
Yann

[T]

On this subject I have noticed my female L182 has bunked up with a baby common bristle which I just moved from another tank.Thing is the common is only about 2" and I dont see any bristles yet.When do they start to grow the bristles?It could be that the baby just ones to hang with another bristle(even though different L number).The L182 is almost twice its size but seems to put up with it.The little one constantly shows its gill spines and seems to try and angle its body close to the L182.

So what do you think guys, just being friendly or is it early breeding behavour.I'm waiting to see what sex it turns out so I can buy a partener and breed them.Would a 10gal tank be ok to breed them in?

[Yann]

Hi T!
I would not worry , it is just a territorial dispute and each one want to show the other that he is the dominant!
I have never witness any courtship outisde the spawning site with loricariidae, all the courtship is being done by the male when the female is trap inside.
And trust me if she find her male not good enough she just won't spwan with him, even if he isn't really willing to let her out, she will find a way!
But considering one what you said these are more intimidation parade between two fish, jut like two cichlids would open their gills trying to pass for bigger and stronger!!!

Still beware of possible crossbreeding, it is not because two species belonging to the same genus, but looking totally different might not crossbreed themselves!!!
Cheers
Yann

[T]

Hmmmm well thats the thing, this is all happening inside a strawberry pot that is up against the back glass so only the holes in the pot can be used for the fish to enter/exit(I have big cichlids in there so this is a haven for the pl*cos).Oh the cichlids are blood parrots

But last time I looked the baby had taken the hint and was hiding somewhere else.Oh at what age do bristlenoses start to get their bristles.