Opinions on this condition

[Speedy1985]

So I recently acquired a couple of new groups of Leporacanthicus, L-264 and 172a(Heterodon), along with a singular L-018. The 264 are in their own tank, and although I lost 1 in the first week, the rest seem to show no outward signs of illness. They seem to be feeding(Repashy custome mixes) as I see no leftover food and signs of waste. At this point I'm considering that it may have been the stress of shipping but I'm keeping a close eye on them.

The 4 172a are in a 40B along with the 018 to quarantine them all together. They are all about 3-1/2". I was away for a few days shortly after I received them and when I got home I noticed that the 172a were clearly covered in what I initially thought may be ick, but I noticed the dotting was more yellow. All 4 were in the front on and around the sponge filter. The 018 seems to be unaffected as of now with no dots. After some quick research here, it appears to be either velvet or chilonodella. I have attached a pic below for those of you with greater experience to give your thoughts. From what I've read, Proform-C seems to be a popular choice here for battling the aforementioned diseases. I don't have any on hand, but ordered it from Amazon today in hopes that I get it before it's too late. In the meantime last night, I did a 60% water change while stirring the pool sand real well and vacuuming. I also added Metro and Prazi as I felt that they were mild enough to at least offer some treatment. I also raised the temp up from about 82 to 85.5F from last night until now.

The tank, which was well established with a small group of Madagascan cichlids that were moved out a few days prior, is filtered by an AC70 and large air driven sponge which I cranked the air supply up to for more bubbling and O2 exchange. I also added a powerhead near the surface for the same reason. My parameters stay rock steady as I am on a well with a pH of 7.8, KH of about 4 degrees and GH of about 9 degrees. Ammonia and Nitrite are 0 as they should be, with nitrate at or below about 30ppm. Other than river rocks, a few ceramic pleco caves, and a water logged piece of driftwood, there are no other decorations in the tank. I should also note that the source water where the fish came from was a pH of 8 with similar hardness numbers.

Any other advice in regards to treatment or diagnosis is greatly appreciated!

[bekateen]

I suck at diagnosing disease, but obviously your fish have one. Not sure the significance of the yellow color to the dots.

FYI, Proform C is a blend of formaldehyde, methanol and malachite green for its active ingredients. If you can find any other fish medicine that is close in formulation, you may be okay. Old fashioned Nox Ich is malachite green and sodium chloride alone, I know that much.

Keep in mind that some meds are bound or neutralized by certain brands of dechlorinator (like SeaChem Prime). In that case, either use a different brand of dechlorinator (API StressCoat) or age your water separately, before adding meds.

Good luck,
Eric

[Speedy1985]

I suck at diagnosing disease, but obviously your fish have one. Not sure the significance of the yellow color to the dots.

FYI, Proform C is a blend of formaldehyde, methanol and malachite green for its active ingredients. If you can find any other fish medicine that is close in formulation, you may be okay. Old fashioned Nox Ich is malachite green and sodium chloride alone, I know that much.

Keep in mind that some meds are bound or neutralized by certain brands of dechlorinator (like SeaChem Prime). In that case, either use a different brand of dechlorinator (API StressCoat) or age your water separately, before adding meds.

Good luck,
Eric

Thank you for the info Eric.

As far as dechlorinator, it is basically a non issue for me because I'm on a well and typically don't use ant water treatments. But it is good to know in case I ever move!

[Bas Pels]

Let me stress I'm not a vet, but such a bunch of amorvous dots looks like a virus to me

Do you have any other Loricarids in the tank, and how are these doing?

Virusses are most often rather specefic, that is, they only attack 1 or a few species, or 1 family or so.

Anything sufficiently unrelated will not be bothered by them, but if it is related enough, a cure will be hard to find

[Speedy1985]

Let me stress I'm not a vet, but such a bunch of amorvous dots looks like a virus to me

Do you have any other Loricarids in the tank, and how are these doing?

Virusses are most often rather specefic, that is, they only attack 1 or a few species, or 1 family or so.

Anything sufficiently unrelated will not be bothered by them, but if it is related enough, a cure will be hard to find

Other than the 4 Heterodon, the only other inhabitant is a single L-018 that seems to be fine.

The dots appear very similar to other pics I've seen posted, where the diseases mentioned seemed to be the majority opinion. But I know that diagnosing and treating them can be tricky. I'm hoping more will chime in about it, and about the use of Proform-C, but in the meantime I will continue to monitor and perform water changes. As of now, the condition doesn't seem to have gotten any worse.

[TwoTankAmin]

Looks like ich to me. Yellow would suggest velvet. But the treatment is the same for either. Everybody has their own favorite treatment. However, in general, the most effective ingredients are a mix of formaldehyde and malachite green.

I have always used Quick Cure by Mardel. https://fritzaquatics.com/products/mardel-quick-cure

The is a 2012 paper which reviews every cure one might imagine http://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893 ... review.pdf

As always, take what I say with a little doubt. You should confirm things with more than one source since I am only a hobbyist and the above is just my opinion.

[Speedy1985]

Looks like ich to me. Yellow would suggest velvet. But the treatment is the same for either. Everybody has their own favorite treatment. However, in general, the most effective ingredients are a mix of formaldehyde and malachite green.

I have always used Quick Cure by Mardel. https://fritzaquatics.com/products/mardel-quick-cure

The is a 2012 paper which reviews every cure one might imagine http://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893 ... review.pdf

As always, take what I say with a little doubt. You should confirm things with more than one source since I am only a hobbyist and the above is just my opinion.

Thank you, any info is always appreciated!

The Proform C that I ordered showed up today. It contains those ingredients that you mentioned, so it appears to be the same. Because it is formulated for ponds, it requires a little math to figure out the dosage. They say 3.5 ounces per 1,000 gallons, so if my math is correct, that comes out to .14 ounces for 40 gallons. A teaspoon is about .16, so that should give me a rough idea. I'm going to search here to see if anyone else had dosage recommendations.

As of today, the 172a are doing no worse.

[bekateen]

The Proform C that I ordered showed up today. It contains those ingredients that you mentioned, so it appears to be the same. Because it is formulated for ponds, it requires a little math to figure out the dosage. They say 3.5 ounces per 1,000 gallons, so if my math is correct, that comes out to .14 ounces for 40 gallons. A teaspoon is about .16, so that should give me a rough idea. I'm going to search here to see if anyone else had dosage recommendations.

The bottle estimates 3.5 ounces = 100ml. So if 100ml med per 1,000 gallons, then divide both by 100 and you get 1ml per 10 gallons, or 1/5th of a teaspoon per 10 gallons.

It's easier to get a dropper incremented in ml than working with ounces or teaspoons, since 1 ml per 10 gallons is nice and round. For example: At Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/?tag=planetcatfish-20 search for 1ml disposable graduated pipette.

Good luck,
Eric

[Speedy1985]

The Proform C that I ordered showed up today. It contains those ingredients that you mentioned, so it appears to be the same. Because it is formulated for ponds, it requires a little math to figure out the dosage. They say 3.5 ounces per 1,000 gallons, so if my math is correct, that comes out to .14 ounces for 40 gallons. A teaspoon is about .16, so that should give me a rough idea. I'm going to search here to see if anyone else had dosage recommendations.

The bottle estimates 3.5 ounces = 100ml. So if 100ml med per 1,000 gallons, then divide both by 100 and you get 1ml per 10 gallons, or 1/5th of a teaspoon per 10 gallons.

It's easier to get a dropper incremented in ml than working with ounces or teaspoons, since 1 ml per 10 gallons is nice and round. For example: At Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/?tag=planetcatfish-20 search for 1ml disposable graduated pipette.

Good luck,
Eric

Thank you Eric, I will find something better for the future. For now to start treatment, I just estimated it to a little shy of the teaspoon. I'm sure for the time being it was good and if I'm a little over it amounts to almost nothing.

[Bas Pels]

Generally speaking, 1 ml is around 20 drops.

[Speedy1985]

As an update, so far the 172a seem to be improving as the dots look to be less prominent. They are also still eating. I did a 60% water change yesterday and dosed the Proform C, and another at roughly the same time again today. Both times I made sure to try and vacuum the sand. The temp is still sitting at around 86F with plenty of aeration. I lost the L-018, but I'm not sure why as it didn't show any signs like the others. I believe that it may have just gotten very stressed from the rise in water temp.

[Speedy1985]

A further update and things have gone well. I had treated several more times with Proform C with no more losses and it looks like any spots that were on the Heterodon are all gone. They've taken up spots in caves and under the driftwood, so I consider that a good sign that they are settling in. I have not seen any uneaten food either.

[bekateen]

Congratulations. It's not often enough that we have positive outcomes when dealing with disease outbreaks.

Continued success,
Eric

[Speedy1985]

Congratulations. It's not often enough that we have positive outcomes when dealing with disease outbreaks.

Continued success,
Eric

Thank you Eric. I’ll still be keeping a close eye on them for a while, but hopefully the worst part is behind them.