Newbie here - Catfish Walmart Rescue

[dkw]

Hello Folks- I have a 75g tank with 3 Synodontis petricolas, 5 angelfish and neons. The cats are my pride and joy and the tank is a very happy environment for all including myself . I researched in length what types of cats to go with and these guys suit me very well. Soooo I was recently over at Walmart and I really do try to NOT look in their tanks but I did and there were very small Synodontis Eupterus (labeled lace catfish) that were all stressed, STARVING, and finless. These guys are the very same catfish I talked myself out of b/c of their reported nature (very territorial) and larger growth and size but I couldn't leave with out them. Now two weeks into their new home with me in which I have put them in my 30 gallon guppy tank but knowing fully aware that their time is limited as they are growing and healing (thankfully) but I am worried about the affect it has on my 2 small Cory catfish and my 1 upside down catfish that also reside in the guppy tank. So my question is to your all should I move my USD to my 75g and attempt a year with the 2 Synodontis Eupterus in the 30g until they are way too big and re-home them completely to folks with bigger tanks OR re-home them now, OR move the Cory's now and the USD catfish? I don't know what to do and my number one concern is the affect a change could have on my 75g happy home but I feel very badly for the former cats in my 30g with the invasion of the 2 soon to be big territorial Synodontis Eupterus'? I know there is another option of just get another larger tank but I am out of space.

Sorry for the length....but I am at a loss!

[naturalart]

If i were you I would now consider your 30g a quarantine tank for at least another month. No telling what these fish have, as Walmart is not exactly the most vigilant in concerning themselves with weather their fish are healthy or not. There's no telling what you just introduced into your 'guppy' tank (hopefully nothing, fingers crossed). After about a month I would consider getting rid of them at your local fish shop for store credit, or if you are a member of your local aquarium society, consider putting them up for auction at the monthly meeting (with full disclosure of course). I say this because obviously, they don't fit into your current set of tanks.

S. eupterus is not really a territorial species. In actuality, what people consider territorial behavior is usually social behavior. When young these fish do a lot of chasing. Given the appropriate space these fish are gregarious/social and do well in small groups of themselves. Individual fish kept by themselves have been noted to 'tag' onto another fish not of its own species, or play with odd objects, in attempts to satisfy its social needs. Good luck, my 2¢

[Richard B]

Good advice on quarantine - I'd also chip in that now Walmart have sold these cats that were suffering, they'll just get another load in & perpetuate the cycle - if no-one buys them, they'll stop stocking them. Are Walmart accountable to any licencing body to sell livestock? That is where we should be going to prevent this happening.

[dkw]

Thanks folks for you input. Gotcha on my 30g being quarantined but it has survived many a fish introduction. Getting back to the harmony of the tank environment in the rarity that these two newbies are infact Synodontis nigriventris (knowing that this can be considered a generic term) but the one USD I have is of the small variety; could he after living all these years accept two buddies or will it cause conflict since he has been a loner OR worth a try? If so would it be advisable to move the two corys to help with the overcrowdness after sufficient quarantine time?

BTW I understand this is like buying a puppy from a pet store thus more demand on the puppy mill trade but the tanks/fish were shameful and I might try to monitor their inventory and speak to their manager. Do I think it will help, probably not but I can't sit there and do nothing.

[gulogulo]

Not to condone the Walmart fish tanks but we need to be cautious to lump them all together, just like LFS's or chain pet stores they are not created equal. While it seems like dkw's was poorly managed it will come down to the individual manager over that area. Many years ago I was one such pet department manager. I had more freedom with what I could order than today's employees do (I actually ran a couple pet fairs with hamsters, parakeets, and the like) so I was able to get Elephant noses, butterflyfish, and many other oddball species and I had regular customers, I also did over $1,000,000 in yearly sales for the department. There are well managed Walmart pet departments just like there are terrible LFS's. Walmart is regulated the same as any pet store as far as fish regulations, there are usually very few so its not difficult to follow them. My wife still works for Walmart and has told me that there is some push to remove the fish from the stores but I've heard the same years ago and they always seem to hang around.

[naturalart]

A quick reference would be to look at the belly of the fish, if it is dark all over they are probably nigriventris if light and/or reticulated probably eupterus. Check out the cat-elog.

As far as behavior goes, S. nigriventris are also gregarious like eupterus. If your fish turn out to be nigriventris your single fish will gain some companions. Would love to see some pics?

Final bits of advice: gulogulo makes a good point, but as a 'rule-of-thumb', don't buy fish from "big box" stores. And alway, alway, always, quarantine your fish, no matter where they are from.

[bekateen]

Final bits of advice: gulogulo makes a good point, but as a 'rule-of-thumb', don't buy fish from "big box" stores. And alway, alway, always, quarantine your fish, no matter where they are from.

I do like my local PetSmart stores, but even if they are well-managed, they are vulnerable to many of the same big-box problems: Read and weep: Mystery Chaetostoma, impulse buy at PetSmart

Buyer beware and ALWAYS quarantine.

[dkw]

I am sorry bekateen to read that post...sigh. I do love my local petsmart and they are very caring individuals and quite knowledgeable folks as well. I am now off to get my dog groomed there but will only LOOK at the fish not buy any! Good news my two newbies are doing very well after a water change yesterday. My poor original USD cat still seems put out but again hoping they can all co-exist for a year or sooner until I figure out new home(s) for the cats. Here are some pics and I can't believe their fins all grew back in 2 weeks, I wish I had taken some pics of them the first day as they looked like worms with whiskers.

Dang I don't see how to upload pics? Let me go read the help area.

[bekateen]

Dang I don't see how to upload pics? Let me go read the help area.

Hi dkw,

Here is a link which shows how to upload photos to a post in the forums. Look for the instructions starting with, "On the other hand."

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... nd#p287418

Cheers, Eric

[cichlidlife]

Synodontis come from Africa and prefer a higher ph than your angels do. I have never herd of synodontis living with south american fish in an aquarium before. What is the ph, because if the ph is lower than 7.3 then the synos wont do so well. Same for your angels if the ph is above 7.7 then the angels will probably die.

[Bas Pels]

While Synodontus do come from Africa, one cannot say they all prefer higher pH than south American fishes do.

Firstly, fishes from south America, but not Amazonia, prefer a pH of 6-7, which is rather normal
Secondly, Synodontus are found all over Africa. That is, also in the Congo forests, where black water is abundant. These like pH = 5, just like south American black water fish.

However, Africa does have its riftlakes, with Synodontis and high pH. Higher than anywhere we get fishes from.

But the thing is, if you know you have a Synodontis, you still know next to nothing about it's care.

[cichlidlife]

Synodontis petricolas come from one of the three major rift lakes found in Africa (lake Tanganyika) and the ph stays around 7.9 to 8.3.

[TwoTankAmin]

While Bas is correct that Synos come from all over Africa and live in different parameters, once one drills down to the specific Syno, they do require specific parameters. Petricola is from lake Tanganyka and its desired parameters according to Seriously Fish are Temperature: 75-82°F (24-28°C), pH: 7.5-8.5, Hardness: 10-35 dH. These parameters are not really suitable for Angels or corys.

There are plenty of Synos that will do fine in softer more acid water. The euptera prefer Temperature: 72-81°F (22-27°C), pH: 6.0-7.5, Hardness: 8-20 dH. While they are similar to petricola in terms of temp and hardness, they prefer different a pH.

Although both fish show the extreme pH at the same 7.5 it will be almost impossible to hold a tank steady at 7.5 pH.

The petricola may see smaller fish as food. The Euptera will for sure want to snack on smaller fish and it gets a lot bigger than the petricola. They also prefer different conditions in terms of the aquascape.

I have always believed that keeping fish in paramaters which are note close to their ideal range results in stress to fish. While you may not see any overt signs of this, they will certainly be more open to disease as stress is know to impair the resistance of fish to diseases etc.

Here is a quick blurb from SeriouslyFish on each:

Euptera:

Should not be kept with any fish so small as to be considered food. Ideal tankmates include Alestiid tetras, robust cichlids (particularly West African species), Mormyrids, Knifefish, Gouramis and larger rasboras and barbs. It tends to become slightly territorial as it matures, especially towards other Synos. However any aggression is usually far less pronounced than in some other members of the genus and it can be maintained in a small group in a suitably sized aquarium, provided each fish is given a refuge to call home. Not recommended for the general community due to its adult size.

from https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/s ... s-euptera/
(Alestiid Tetras are the ones native to Africa.)

Petricola:

Should not be kept with any fish so small as to be considered food but makes a good addition to a community of hard water cichlids, ideally mouthbrooding species of Rift Lake origin. It can also be kept with suitably sized rainbowfish and livebearers. The dwarf form can be kept with many different species due to its adaptability regarding water chemistry (see below). Both forms should be kept in a group of 4 or more as single specimens are often very secretive. One of the most peaceful species of Syno available.

from https://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/s ... petricola/

Note that neither Angels, SA Tetras nor corys are suggested as tankmates for either of these species unless it is the dwarf perricola which will tolerate a wider range of parameters and can be kept with SA fish. The OP did not indicate his were dwarf petricola.