Received less fish, dead fish, sick fish from seller in this forum

[hdayin]

Hello Everyone,

I need your advice and help to understand the business conventions here.

I would rather believe the seller didn't intentionally send me less fish, because I talked to him quite a few times over the phone, and he has been in the forum selling fish for a long time. So I post this article only seeking for advice, I am not pointing finger to the seller.

I bought many pleco fish in one shipping package from a famous seller in this forum.

I paid overnight delivery.
When I received the package in the morning, the heat pack was totally cold.
Two fish arrived dead. I sent the picture to the sell in about 2 hours. No refund received so far.

Several group of pleco fish missed 1 or 2 fish that the seller promised to send me.
One group has one extra fish, but still the total number of fish is still not right: about 3 fish were not sent to me.
I told the seller about that, but the seller insisted he sent me the right number of pleco.

The seller told me he paid more shipping (about 80 dollars more than his estimation), and he found one pair pleco I bought are sick (with white fungus), so he didn't send the pair to me. But I paid about 100 dollars of the pair, and I never received the refund yet.
(PS: This missing pair was not included in 3 missing fish).

One breeding group arrived with white fungus and most of them died within a week.
The seller said when he sent out the fish, there was no white fungus.
Is it possible for fish to grow white fungus over night? Or is it because the heat pack didn't work during the shipping?

Please advise!
Many thanks!

[hdayin]

Let me summarize my question here:
1. If buyer received dead fish and sent pictures in about 2 hours, will buyer get the refund?
2. For unexpected additional shipping cost: will buyer pay for it?
3. If the heat pack stopped working and fish arrived sick and died within several days, will there be partial refund?
4. If buyer received less fish, but seller believes he/she sent the right number of fish, what's the next step?

Thanks!

[TwoTankAmin]

Most sellers offer a live arrival guarantee. It does not matter where the fault may lie if fish arrive dead or ready to die. The seller is still responsible.

It is the responsibility of the seller to pack the fish properly and to take any other steps necessary to insure the fish arrive alive and healthy.

It is the responsibility of the seller to know how to count the number of fish sent.

The problem with dealing with individual sellers is when things go awry in their lives, this can translate to their fish dealings. health, divorce, loss of job, drinking or drugs all can become an issue and suddenly the best reputations go by the wayside.

However, it is equally important to understand that there are also unscrupulous buyers out there who try to scam honest sellers.

Normal practice is to try and work things out so all parties are satisfied. It doesn't always work this way. Depending on how you paid you have some recourse by filing a complaint with a credit card company or with PayPal. You need lots of evidence however, Emails. receipts etc.

In the end you may need to out the seller as dishonest in order to help protect other members here from being taken advantage of. Also, bear in mind there is the other (seller's) side of this story which we have not yet heard.

[hdayin]

Thanks for your sharing the best practice!
So far, I still guess the seller was too busy when packaging more 40 pleco fish, so the number was not correct and he didn't notice the white fungus on some of the pleco fish.

The first deposit to hold fish (the group of L183 was not included here)

The seller told me he didn't ship me the L180 pair, because he observed some fungus on L180.
I appreciate it, but I have not received any refund yet.

[hdayin]

2nd payment including L183 breeding group

[hdayin]

Agreement of shipping cost before I made the payment: I pay $100, seller pay $40

[hdayin]

When seller bring the package to fedex, fedex charged $214.

[hdayin]

At first, I found only received 9 L183 (including one dead L183), while the seller said he sent me 10 L183
I sent the picture of two dead fish (the other could be L129).

Two months past, I have not received any refund for the two dead fish yet.

[hdayin]

Seller told me the additional cost in shipping needs to be included in my cost.
seller said he shipped 10 green dragon to me, but I only received 9, and most of them are small.
I also noticed 1 L129 is missing, 3 L136B are missing.

[hdayin]

Seller said he need to wait for FEDEX to reimburse the two dead fish.
(I bought fish from other sellers, they didn't tell me to wait for Fedex to reimburse the dead fish).

I did some simple calculation to argue with him.

[hdayin]

We all agree that Most bags has 3 pleco.
Seller said some bags has 4 fish.
But I saw some bags only has two fish.

And I found some L183 has white fungus spots.

[hdayin]

I thought it was a fungus infection.
Seller thought it's shipping damage.

Anyway, is it OK to put two adult l183 pleco in one bag?

[stuby]

Seller said he need to wait for FEDEX to reimburse the two dead fish.
(I bought fish from other sellers, they didn't tell me to wait for Fedex to reimburse the dead fish).

I did some simple calculation to argue with him.

argue1.png

Fedex doesn't reimburse for DOA.... that is on the seller. Also if the pacage is late Fedex doesn't guarantee arival time on live fish..... I can direct you to where it has this if you want to see it. So if they are waiting for Fedex they will be waiting a very long time!

Chuck

[hdayin]

Zooming in ...

[hdayin]

Seller said he need to wait for FEDEX to reimburse the two dead fish.
(I bought fish from other sellers, they didn't tell me to wait for Fedex to reimburse the dead fish).

I did some simple calculation to argue with him.

argue1.png

Fedex doesn't reimburse for DOA.... that is on the seller. Also if the pacage is late Fedex doesn't guarantee arival time on live fish..... I can direct you to where it has this if you want to see it. So if they are waiting for Fedex they will be waiting a very long time!

Chuck

Thanks for your information!
The package was delivered in the morning, so I think FEDEX fulfilled their service commitment for overnight delivery.

[stuby]

I would say so! Any DOA is on the seller for sure...… and no shipping company covers DOA. Even if they buy the extra insurance it means nothing and all they did is waste more money. After all, the seller/shipper needs to pack correctly not the shipping company.... in this case Fedex.

Chuck

[hdayin]

I kindly asked the seller to double check the number of pleco fish.
I told the seller I lost another L183 due to fungus infection.

I was also wondering if the fungus infection was caused by bad heat packs in the package: when I received the package, the heat pack was totally cold.

[hdayin]

I told the seller the infected fish are keep dying, and the one left in the tank also got infected.

[hdayin]

More dead fish, more pictures, it seems the dead pleco was infected with some serious fungus:

[bekateen]

Sorry for your experience. Although I'm not a big seller, this is exactly why I don't ship. Local pickup only. I keep prices low, in part for the inconvenience to the buyer, but there are bigger reasons too.

Regards, Eric

[hdayin]

I bought pleco and other fancy fish from aquabid and other sites before, never had such a big loss and missing fish.
I spent a whole night to compose this post, I could have made more money by working at somewhere else tonight.

I don't want to take advantage of anyone to get free fish, but I believe the transactions here need to be fair.

I am looking forward to working with the seller to sort out the issue.

[Viktor Jarikov]

The whole thing stinks but it needs to be worked out between you two. If this fails, both sides should be able, if willing, to present their side of their story to us, the third party... even though there is no guarantee this will help any but it might.

Finally, if this is a friendly transaction between two hobbyists and there is no explicit business policy, which had to be understood and agreed upon before the purchase, this issue could be pretty hard to judge for a third party.

[hdayin]

The whole thing stinks but it needs to be worked out between you two. If this fails, both sides should be able, if willing, to present their side of their story to us, the third party... even though there is no guarantee this will help any but it might.

Finally, if this is a friendly transaction between two hobbyists and there is no explicit business policy, which had to be understood and agreed upon before the purchase, this issue could be pretty hard to judge for a third party.

Thank you for your reply!
The seller charged me for the 180 pair, but he didn't send.
He didn't tell me I need to report the dead fish within two hours, but just 2 hours after the package arrived, he tole me the new rule.
he didn't mentioned I need to pay for the additional unexpected shipping of $64 , but he said he won't refund me the 180 pair which charged me $110 bucks. No refund after two months.

[hdayin]

Update:
The seller said he would send me 2 more 136b.

but there was actually
3 L136b missing, 1 L129 missing, 1 L183 missing, 1 L129 died upon arrival, 1 L183 died upon arrival
That's 5 fish missing, 2 fish dead upon arrive
The seller sent only 1 extra green dragon, NOT 2 extra green dragon.
Above all, I should have the reimbursement of the 6 fish.
(other experienced forum member has pointed out in the post that fedex won't reimburse the dead fish even if seller buy the insurance)

I don't think sending me 2 l136 is fair, especially the shipping is expensive.

[hdayin]

This is the message I plan to send to the seller:

Dear Seller:

I don't want to take advantage of anyone to get free fish, I simply want our business to be fair.

Other experienced seller in the forum has pointed out:
1. Fedex won't reimburse the dead fish even if we buy the insurance.
2. Seller should reimburse the fish doa

here is my calculation based on the price in your receipt:
Extra shipping is $64, I will pay half of it: $-32
1 183 missing, 1 183 dead upon arrival: $30x2=$60
1 extra green dragon: I own you $-20
1 L129 missing, 1 L129 doa, $18x2 = $36
3 L136 missing: 19x3 =$57
1 pair of L180 missing: $110
So in total: 110+57+36-20+60-32= $211

Please reimburse by July 04. I have been waiting for the refund for over two months.
After that date, I will file a paypal dispute since paypal has 180 days buyer protection.
I would file complains through BBB.

[EdWalker]

If I were you I'd file that paypal dispute now.

And if that does not work, file a chargeback with your bank/credit card company.

[TwoTankAmin]

File a PayPal disputes as soon as possible in all cases. Get it on record. Paypal allows for people to settle things and for the person who filed to report the problem as resolved if and when it is. There is no risk in filing, but there is a risk in not doing so. Paypal will look at all evidence. this includes of the seller does not have a published policy on things Lie DOAs and refunds. they will also consider all email communications as well.

In looking at this thread the thing that also sticks out is that the seller does not appear to have any concern for the welfare of the animals in their care. Unfortunately, there are no fish police

[hdayin]

Update:

Seller called me, and told me that he found the missing fish in a tank at the corner of his fish room.
I think it's very normal for pleco breeders not to know how many fish they have in their tank

Seller also told me he complained to his heat pack supplier about the cold heat pack, so that his supplier would do a better job next time.

Waiting for the refund now.

[hdayin]

Would someone help me to delete this thread?
This forum should be full of love and peace

Seller and me are all set.

Thanks a lot!

[Linus_Cello]

Thanks for the update.
Moderator, if not delete thread, lock it.