My new L397s and Peckoltia compta, imported from the UK to California

[nabulus]

My tank is heated to 84F. When I do water changes, the magnitude of the temperature drop in the aquarium varies from summer to winter, based upon how cold the water coming out of the faucet is: In the summer, even my "cold" tap water is nearly 80F, so there is little change in overall tank temperature. Currently (in late November), the tap water is very cold, so after refilling the tank, the final aquarium temperature is 72F.

Cheers, Eric

I have been thinking about this. So basically you did not try to control for water parameters. It seems that the abrupt change (improvement) of water quality induced their spawn...
During the winter you also do 90% with cold tap water per week? 72F sounds very low.

[bekateen]

Yes that's how I do it. Not so precise, maybe 70%-90%.

And in midwinter, tap water is so cold I add a little hot water from sink to prevent aquarium from falling below 72F.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

Eric, time to show some of your L397 offspring, please.

What are you doing to drive these insane growth rates on them?

[bekateen]

Eric, time to show some of your L397 offspring, please.

What are you doing to drive these insane growth rates on them?

Here's a video on Facebook (Link). Sorry it's not on YouTube, so I can't embed it here. For what it's worth, this video does not show the largest fry. The biggest fry in this video are 2"/5cm TL.

I think L397 is just a fast growing species. Given that mine were imported at between 3 and just over 4cm TL when I bought them, and now they've grown to adulthood and spawned within 13 months of arrival, it says a lot about their growth rate.

The tank temperature is 85F; well circulated with filters and powerheads. Food includes live blackworms, lots of raw sweet potato, occasional boiled shrimp or clams, algae wafers, Spirulina flakes, shrimp, pleco, and worm pellets of various brands, and wood - lots of wood.

[nabulus]

Eric, what kind of wood is best (and cheap...) for L397 and how often do you replenish the wood?
Thanks!
Best, Ke

[bekateen]

Hi Ke,

I buy Malaysian driftwood at LFS and I collect dead fallen dry Manzanita or oak in the wild.

Other safe woods are out there, but I can't think of them all.

There are several forum threads on safe woods: https://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/sea ... mit=Search

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

Eric, time to show some of your L397 offspring, please.

Here are a couple of pics - not the largest baby, but the largest I could get photos of.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

pretty hard to believe how fast they grow. This is almost beyond most ancistrus growth rates.

[Jobro]

Sorry to bomb your thread, Eric, just a little question on the side, what gender would you put the following L397 in?
Thank you!

only have that one, they are pretty hard to come by around my region =(

Johannes

[Jobro]

I tried to get some better pictures. It is 6.5cm SL / 8.5cm TL.

[bekateen]

I don't see much odontode development.

At that size, I'd say female.

And by the way, her colors are great.

Cheers, Eric

[nabulus]

Eric,
Do you still do normal water change (e.g. 50%) while the fish are mating or the males are fanning eggs?

-Ke

[bekateen]

Hi Ke,

To answer your question, it depends: When a male is trapping a female, I'll skip a water change for a day or more. But I have done water changes while males were fanning eggs several times.

In fact, I'm in the "no water change" situation right now. Saturday I was going to do a water change in the tank with my L397. I currently have one male fanning eggs, so I was going to do the water change. But I noticed my

Panaqolus albomaculatus

courting - a male and female going into/out of a cave that day, so I didn't do a water change. The water in that tank was already overdue for a change (it had been 2 weeks since the last water change), but I skipped the water change Saturday and again Sunday because of the courting mustard spots.

I am nervous to let the water get so yucky (@nabulus, you've seen how dirty the water is in that tank currently). But then again, I recall my first ever L397 spawn occurred after a period of tank neglect, and I only discovered the dad on wrigglers AFTER I did the water change (the water was so filled with tannins, poop and food sediments that I couldn't see into his cave before the water change ). So I'm hopeful this time that maybe the neglect has allowed the mustard spots to spawn.

To be clear, I'm not saying either of these species NEED dirty water to spawn. I've had multiple spawns from my L397 in clean water since that first spawn in dirty water. Rather, I suspect that the lack of attention which occurs to result in a neglected tank might provide the hesitant fish extended privacy to encourage them to spawn the first time. Once they figure out how much fun spawning is, then they seem to do it more and more, regardless of how much I bother them with water changes.

That's really all speculation on my part - just a theory - but it's a pretty safe theory.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

I agree with Eric. It is better to neglect a waterchange for some days, when there is breeding activity going on. The less attention you pay to the tank during these days, the better. This is probably true for all species of plecos.

[bekateen]

Do you still do normal water change (e.g. 50%) while the fish are mating or the males are fanning eggs?

Hi Ke,

Are your new plecos already trapping? Or is this for your other plecos? (which would also be nice!)

Cheers, Eric

[nabulus]

Haha no. It is my L134 group.
Since last December one of the males kept trapping different females and the duration for each trapping usually lasted for more than 1 week and sometimes more than 2 weeks. However, not a single time they produced any eggs.
I wonder what I might have done wrongly. I will just stop doing WC when the trapping happens.

Thanks Eric!

Do you still do normal water change (e.g. 50%) while the fish are mating or the males are fanning eggs?

Hi Ke,

Are your new plecos already trapping? Or is this for your other plecos? (which would also be nice!)

Cheers, Eric

[nabulus]

Thank you Jobro and I appreciate your suggestion!

I agree with Eric. It is better to neglect a waterchange for some days, when there is breeding activity going on. The less attention you pay to the tank during these days, the better. This is probably true for all species of plecos.

[bekateen]

It is my L134 group.
Since last December one of the males kept trapping different females and the duration for each trapping usually lasted for more than 1 week and sometimes more than 2 weeks. However, not a single time they produced any eggs.
I wonder what I might have done wrongly.

Ke, you probably haven't done anything wrong. My L201s trapped multiple times unsuccessfully before they finally spawned. Just take good care of them and feed them well, and if they are repeatedly trapping, then eventually they will probably spawn.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

If you have multiple tanks and multiple males, I would try swapping the dominant male (the one that traps the females so long) into a different tank. Sometimes the less dominant males are the better breeders.

[nabulus]

Thank you Jobro,
I will give it a try!

If you have multiple tanks and multiple males, I would try swapping the dominant male (the one that traps the females so long) into a different tank. Sometimes the less dominant males are the better breeders.

[nabulus]

Eric, I have to say that I am now impressed by how much poop these wood eaters can produce every day. WOW these guys are purely pooping machines! I can not imagine what your aquarium would look like without WC for two weeks or more, since you have so many L397 juveniles and adults in there. That would be full tank of poops...

Hi Ke,

To answer your question, it depends: When a male is trapping a female, I'll skip a water change for a day or more. But I have done water changes while males were fanning eggs several times.

In fact, I'm in the "no water change" situation right now. Saturday I was going to do a water change in the tank with my L397. I currently have one male fanning eggs, so I was going to do the water change. But I noticed my

Panaqolus albomaculatus

courting - a male and female going into/out of a cave that day, so I didn't do a water change. The water in that tank was already overdue for a change (it had been 2 weeks since the last water change), but I skipped the water change Saturday and again Sunday because of the courting mustard spots.

I am nervous to let the water get so yucky (@nabulus, you've seen how dirty the water is in that tank currently). But then again, I recall my first ever L397 spawn occurred after a period of tank neglect, and I only discovered the dad on wrigglers AFTER I did the water change (the water was so filled with tannins, poop and food sediments that I couldn't see into his cave before the water change ). So I'm hopeful this time that maybe the neglect has allowed the mustard spots to spawn.

To be clear, I'm not saying either of these species NEED dirty water to spawn. I've had multiple spawns from my L397 in clean water since that first spawn in dirty water. Rather, I suspect that the lack of attention which occurs to result in a neglected tank might provide the hesitant fish extended privacy to encourage them to spawn the first time. Once they figure out how much fun spawning is, then they seem to do it more and more, regardless of how much I bother them with water changes.

That's really all speculation on my part - just a theory - but it's a pretty safe theory.

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

Eric, I have to say that I am now impressed by how much poop these wood eaters can produce every day. WOW these guys are purely pooping machines! I can not imagine what your aquarium would look like without WC for two weeks or more, since you have so many L397 juveniles and adults in there. That would be full tank of poops...

Have you started feeding them the raw sweet potato yet? The orange strings of poop are the funniest.

The good thing about wood poop is that it is relatively nutrient poor, so a lot of solid poop can build up in your tank - the water is adrift with suspended solids - but the nitrate levels don't go through the roof fast.

Remember, once you start getting your own babies, save some of the parents' poop to add to your fry baskets as part of their first foods. I'm convinced it helps them as they start feeding.

Cheers, Eric

[nabulus]

Hi Eric,
Thanks a lot for all the helpful tips.
Not I have not started giving them sweet photos but I will do.
Best, Ke

Eric, I have to say that I am now impressed by how much poop these wood eaters can produce every day. WOW these guys are purely pooping machines! I can not imagine what your aquarium would look like without WC for two weeks or more, since you have so many L397 juveniles and adults in there. That would be full tank of poops...

Have you started feeding them the raw sweet potato yet? The orange strings of poop are the funniest.

The good thing about wood poop is that it is relatively nutrient poor, so a lot of solid poop can build up in your tank - the water is adrift with suspended solids - but the nitrate levels don't go through the roof fast.

Remember, once you start getting your own babies, save some of the parents' poop to add to your fry baskets as part of their first foods. I'm convinced it helps them as they start feeding.

Cheers, Eric

[Jobro]

Not I have not started giving them sweet photos but I will do.

Pretty sure they will be very delighted by some sweet photos hahaha

[b.reder]

My wood eaters have overwhelmed my two HOB filters and one external canister with the volume of their poop. Just put in a second external canister. I do a 50% water change twice a week. Where do I go from here? -Barry

[bekateen]

Flow through system.

[Fundulopanchax76]

Yes that is interesting about poop like first food - some animals do this and that way babies get bacterias from the gut of their parents, which help them digest their future food.
I have a question - if in my tank live many snails and i have breeding plecos in there will the snals eat the pleco eggs or daddy could defend them effectively ?

[bekateen]

I have not seen snails get my pleco eggs, but that doesn't mean they haven't eaten some eggs and reduced clutch size.

Cheers, Eric

[gehandylan]

What's the largest L397 clutch you've had Eric?

[bekateen]

Hi Gehan,

I haven't counted all of my clutches; stopped counting after the fourth or fifth spawn. But if I recall correctly, it was around 40-45 fry... Not eggs, but fry recovered out of dad's cave. I never take eggs away from dad.

Cheers, Eric