L128 Spawn!

[MarcW]

Thanks for the reply Jobro.

I leave the courgette in overnight, for 12 hours, I haven't noticed any issues with this before, maybe the fry are more sensitive? I have tried sweet potato, red peppers and cucumber before but they don't seem interested. I've not tried carrots though, I'll try them soon.

I also feed a combination of various 'plec tablets', a couple types of Repashy foods, as well as other food for the tetras and corys I have in there. Hopefully this makes up for what nutrition they miss from the courgette.

I've noticed the fry seem to be consuming algae/bio film from the glass which I've never seen the adults do. I'm hopeful the redness has resolved itself as I haven't found any dead fry from the second spawn and can't see any with redness now.

I do a 50% water change once a week with a mixture of RO and de-chlorinated tap water, this routine has been the same since I setup this tank.

Thanks for your help.

[Jobro]

Ok, seems all good to me.

They need some time to get used to new vegetables. Try 48h with sweet potatoe and carrot. They do not rot within this time and it gives the plecos more time to try it out.

[MarcW]

I have noticed that the courgette gets soft, overnight. I'll leave the sweet potato and carrot in for a couple days to see if they will try it, rather than taking it out after one night as I have done before. Thanks for the tip.

[MarcW]

The remaining fry are still doing well, the most I have seen at once is 4, but I'm hopeful there are 6-10 in total.

They are now 30-35mm TL, I haven't yet seen any evidence of the blue edging to the fins I've seen on young L128 in the past, maybe it only comes in once they are older.

[MarcW]

I've just counted 6, fingers crossed there might be a few more hiding.

Jobro, I did leave some raw sweet potato in for 48 hours and they did eat some on the second attempt of feeding it to them, not as much as they would eat of the courgette, but I guess they have to work harder to eat the sweet potato.

[Jobro]

I think the potato would also staisfy them faster than a courgette, which is mostly only water

nice to hear that your youngsters are doing fine! How old are they by now?

[MarcW]

It has been about 3 months since the eggs were laid.

That's a good point on the sweet potato I hadn't thought of it like that, I was just looking at the amount which was eaten!

[unklebilly]

I think you mentioned this and it may be obvious but many fish as a strange survival mechanism will eat their young to make room and conserve energy for the next spawn. It sounds like that's what your crew is doing by kicking the fry out of the cave prematurely. I'd say you are on the right track by separating the fry as late as possible and raising them in the same tank. I suppose ideally you could remove the parents but that does not sound practical with your setup. I'd imagine in the wild fry like that may survive in dense vegetation. Perhaps you could simulate that with a thick patch of micro swords or the like.

[MarcW]

I was considering removing the fry or eggs, but the caves are under 3 layers of slate hiding places, and I would make a mess pulling it apart and probably squash some fry or scratch the glass! In trying to keep the tank as natural as possible, I made it harder to manage now they have bred, there are plenty of hiding spots for them in the slate piles, they seem to like it there. I'm not sure they were eaten, as I pulled out the dead fry from all the spawns.

[Jobro]

It just happens that they will kick out some eggs, if either the cave is too big or they are nervous. It's a very individual behaviour and varies on each dad.
Some people say they also kick out unviable eggs.

It also happens that a whole clutch of eggs disappears over night. Maybe the dad gives up on it and eats them all himself or he gets contested and loses the eggs to a rival. These are among the most common theories I guess.

[unklebilly]

I don't think they are being eaten. Just the same concept as being given up on to begin a new spawn. If they get kicked out into the community they might be getting roughed up and essentially beaten to death. Sounds like you are well on your way to finding the key!

[Jobro]

I don't think there is any aggression from adult plecos towards fry. I never heard about anything like this. More the opposite. Females will even go into a cave with fry and lay another batch of eggs without harming the existent fry.

If dead fry is found after they were released by the dad, the easiest explanation would be that there is not enough food available. Young plecos usually don't search actively for food. They eat where they swim, if there is not enough food available, they will starve.

Here are three fry of the same spawn. The biggest was in a breeder box and always had plenty of food. The other two managed to escape from the breeder box and lived in the parents tank. The medium one was caught after 4-5 days. The tiny one was caught only after about 2 weeks. He died shortly after, even though he was supplied with plenty of food after he was returned to the breeder. If they don't get enough food in their early days they are prone to die later on

There may be other reasons like diseases or high bacterial rates in the water that kill fry. But unless somebody proves aggression towards fry I would refrain from that theory.

[MarcW]

Just a quick update the 6 surviving fry are now approximately 1 year old, give or take a week.

I only managed to catch a mid sized one, it is now 3 inches TL, and appears to be a female, even at this small size.

There is certainly a larger one in there maybe 3.5 or even 4 inches TL.

[bekateen]

Spectacular. I still marvel at how challenging these fish are.

Cheers, Eric

[MarcW]

Thanks Eric, I'm very happy to have raised 6 of these. Hopefully I can form an F1 breeding group which may be easier to breed than their parents!

I keep hoping I'll see more eggs one day, but they appear to have given up, I haven't changed anything for the past year but no more action, not even any trapping, the dominant male only caves when I'm doing water changes!

[Jobro]

Congrats on those 6 offspring. 3" in one year seems pretty much! Good work!

feed them high in protein and maybe remove the biggest male for a while. This might stir things up for now or once you return him some weeks later.

[MarcW]

Thanks Jobro, good idea to remove the dominant male. Unfortunately I have nowhere else to put him! If all goes to plan I'll have a fish room in 6-12 months, then I'll have plenty of room to try to encourage them to spawn again!

[MarcW]

Hi Everyone,

I have a question about one of my young L128, I think it is the smallest of them, so maybe this is down to a bit of bullying?

Over the past few months I have noticed its spot pattern and colouration changing, its back half has become much lighter than its siblings, some of its spots seem to be merging and forming blotches, and its fins are more translucent.

I've added some pictures, in a couple of them you can see some of its siblings for comparison, any ideas what may be causing this? The floating particles are because I had just performed a water change!

[MarcW]

As I walked in this morning I saw the dominant male trapping the female again!

The male seems very skittish and despite the female staying in the cave all day, the male is in and out, and very easilly scared. I tried to take a picture but scared the male, so I'm leaving them alone. In the picture the female is in the cave and the male to the right.

It was last winter they last spawned, and they hadn't shown any signs over the summer, a small sample I know, but perhaps it could be a sign they are a seasonal spawner?

[bekateen]

Good luck. Maybe seasonality is your answer.

Cheers, Eric

[MarcW]

Thanks Eric, I've got my fingers crossed that I'll see eggs soon.

[Jobro]

Best of luck to you Marc!!!

[MarcW]

Thanks Jobro, I forgot to mention in the previous post that I didn't try anything to trigger a spawn, all care has been the same since they last spawned. 50% water change every week (tap/ro mix), mainly fed with Repashy soilent green/fruut luups/bottom scratcher, otherwise left alone, no new fish, no rocks moved, etc.

[Jobro]

Winter seems to be the season for many seasonal spawner.

[MarcW]

There are eggs this morning !

I would guess 50-60, the male is covering them very well and fanning away. He seems to be much more on top of them this time, hardly leaving any gap for me to see.

Compared to my Hypancistrus, the trapping seemed to be very short, I first noticed the female in the cave yesterday morning, and overnight the eggs were laid, and the female has gone off to her normal hiding place. With my Hypancistrus they mess about for a week or more sometimes, and even then there are often no eggs at the end of it!

I hope he learnt from the last time and I'll be able to raise a few more from this spawn!

[Jobro]

Congrats Marc!

Let's hope for the best!

[CoryWally]

Great effort Marc!

[MarcW]

Thanks everyone, I'll be sure to post updates when there are any changes.

[MrRRunner]

Well done Marc, hopefully one day mine will surprise me

[Fundulopanchax76]

Congratulations !