Ph Water Hardness or Something Else?

[swampgorilla]

Problem: I don't think my Panda Cory's are very active - they hide under a sponge filter all day ... but come running out enthusiastically whenever I drop food into the tank and they eat till it's gone, then run back and hide (all piled up on each other under the sponge). Also, while eating, I have to back away from the tank because if they see me - they scatter back to the hiding place.

I have 10 Panda Cory's ... started out with 13 a year ago. Three died for no apparent reason but I suspect that those were the three in the tank before I switched to SAND. I switched to sand a year ago and then bought 10 more Cory's.

So here's the information on the tank ...

1. Water parameters ...

a) Temperature range - ALWAYS set to 74 - 75 degrees F.
b) pH - 8.3
c) GH - 17.9 ppm (it literally changes color when the first drop of the test kit is dropped in)
d) KH - 11 (196.9 ppm)
e) Conductivity or TDS (if GH and KH aren't provided) - Don't know
f) Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite levels (Most LFS's will check your water and give a list of readings) - 0 Ammonia / 0 Nitrite / 0 Nitrate. I test these EVERY DAY.
g) Water change frequency - 1 time per week ... it's always an 80 percent change.
h) "Routine" water treatments: The only thing I put into the tank is ... I put PRIME at the recommended dosage into the new water. About once every three months - I treat the tank with PRAZI-PRO, three times spaced three days apart. If I see a slight ammonia spike of 1ppm or less, I'll treat with PRIME and usually dose the tank with STABILITY for a few days until the problem goes away. If the ammonia suddenly goes over 1ppm - I do a drastic water change. Only had to do this twice and both times it was dead fish that caused it.

2. Tank set up ...

a) Size: 36 gallons
b) Substrate: Caribsea Torpedo Beach
c) Filtration: 1 Cascade 1000 Canister ... biomedia is POND MATRIX / Two FLUVAL C3 HoB's - biomedia is POND MATRIX / Two Hydro IV Pro Sponge filters.
d) Furnishings: One "igloo" type hiding place they can all squeeze into but don't - and a skull partially buried in the sand that three or more can squeeze into but they don't. We'll also count the two Hydro IV sponge filters as "furnishings" since they're in the tank and the corys will camp out under them.
e) Other tank mates: None
f) How long has it been set-up? About a year.
g) Food used and frequency: I feed them three Hikari sinking pellets - twice a day.
h) Recent changes in the tank which occurred shortly before the disease/problem appeared (if any; e.g., changes in water source or water treatment, changes in decorations or substrate, replacement or changes of hardware (filters, heaters, etc.), and additions or removals of live plants or live fish)

^^ They were pretty active when I got them, they are still VERY active at feeding time and at night. But in the days, lately, for about two months now, they have been camping out under one of the sponges.

3. Symptoms / Problem description or history: As described above.

4. Action taken (if any): None.

5. Medications used (if any) / changes in fish observed since treatment began (if any): None, they look fine eat fine, just not active in the day time and very skittish of anyone who approaches the tank. I used to see them "glass surf" all the time ... now I only catch them in the early morning hours when it's still dark.

HERE IS MY QUESTION: Yes I know my water is way to hard for Cory's. I thought they would adapt. I DO have the means to go "RO" - but I'm not sure I should. I would have to mix my tap with the RODI water and that will reduce my GH ... which I think is fine?

Tell me what y'all think ... I would like to see them healthy enough to spawn. Something's wrong ... I dunno.

Here's a video I took of them only a week or so ago ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDSTocro5oE

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Problem: I don't think my Panda Cory's are very active - they hide under a sponge filter all day ... but come running out enthusiastically whenever I drop food into the tank and they eat till it's gone, then run back and hide (all piled up on each other under the sponge). Also, while eating, I have to back away from the tank because if they see me - they scatter back to the hiding place.

I've seen the video and the fish look fine, but I think the problem is just lack of cover. If you add some bits of bog wood, structural leaf litter etc the fish should come out more.

I know that plants don't appeal to every-one, but they make tank management a lot easier and will provide areas of shade and cover, where the fish will feel more secure. A floating plant, like Amazon Frogbit or Nile Cabbage is pretty trouble free.

I have 10 Panda Cory's ... started out with 13 a year ago. Three died for no apparent reason but I suspect that those were the three in the tank before I switched to SAND.

I like sand for

Corydoras

as well.

...f) Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite levels (Most LFS's will check your water and give a list of readings) - 0 Ammonia / 0 Nitrite / 0 Nitrate. I test these EVERY DAY.

You are unlikely to have 0 ppm nitrate (NO3), levels should build up between water changes. You have plenty of biological filtration, so the ammonia (NH3) your fish produce will be converted to NO3, but this can only be removed by anaerobic de-nitrification, water changes or assimilation by plants.

I like your filters, and you are unlikely to get denitrification in them, there is more about this in this thread (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41038&start=80).

g) Water change frequency - 1 time per week ... it's always an 80 percent change.
h) "Routine" water treatments: The only thing I put into the tank is ... I put PRIME at the recommended dosage into the new water. About once every three months - I treat the tank with PRAZI-PRO, three times spaced three days apart. If I see a slight ammonia spike of 1ppm or less, I'll treat with PRIME and usually dose the tank with STABILITY for a few days until the problem goes away. If the ammonia suddenly goes over 1ppm - I do a drastic water change. Only had to do this twice and both times it was dead fish that caused it.

You shouldn't need to use Prazi-Pro regularly.

g) Food used and frequency: I feed them three Hikari sinking pellets - twice a day.

HERE IS MY QUESTION: Yes I know my water is way to hard for Cory's. I thought they would adapt. I DO have the means to go "RO" - but I'm not sure I should. I would have to mix my tap with the RODI water and that will reduce my GH ... which I think is fine?

Tell me what y'all think ... I would like to see them healthy enough to spawn. Something's wrong ... I dunno.

I'm not sure it is a water hardness issue,

Corydoras panda

will breed successfully in hard water. I have hard tap water, but I use rain-water in the tanks, I know it isn't an option for every-body.

I'd try some live food to get them in breeding condition, Black or Grindal worms are good conditioning food.

cheers Darrel

[swampgorilla]

THANKS Darrel!

Last night, after I started reducing the lights ... all the Cory's came out and I even saw a lot of unmistakable spawning behavior from the males - but no actual spawning. Males were VERY aggressive but I have a good ratio of M/F so it wasn't too bad for the girls. They were extremely active all night. So they ARE active ... just at night. I think you are absolutely right about the "cover" and I will endeavor get more of that ... even though I really do like a clean and sleek tank.

With repect to Nitrate ... I know it's hard to believe, and it is for me too ... but I test my water daily for Ammonia / Nitrite / Nitrate and Nitrate normally always comes up 0. It actually DOES go above that on occasion - but it's extremely rare and never goes above 10.

And - believe it or not, this goes the same for my Goldfish tank ... which has four goldfish. I thought initially that my test kit had gone bad and bought a new one. Since then (about six months ago) I bought even another one ...

Thought maybe I was doing the test wrong ... but I wasn't. Changed the test so that I shook the reagents even longer than recommended - 0.

Then ... one week ... I started getting a reading on Nitates, and it was pretty significant (but not over 10 or so).

So I cleaned the canister filter tubes and changed water. The next week - I had 0 again.

I use A LOT of POND MATRIX in all my filters - and it's mature. I've had most of it actively servicing one tank or another for over two years. I didn't buy the Pond Matrix for nitrate removal ... I just thought it was great media for ammonia and nitrite. But ...

Additionally - this NEVER happened until I switched to SAND in the cory tank about a year ago. Before that I had gravel - and the tank always had nitrates in it. At about the same time - I converted my goldfish tank to a bare-bottom tank.

I know it's unbelievable, but I have been doing "fish" for about 10 years and I've been doing that test just as long. And for most of those ten years I always had nitrates and sometimes even very elevated levels in my tanks.

The only thing different now is ...

1. POND MATRIX
2. Sand or bare bottom tank
3. I feed the fish WAY less these days than when I started out.

So I don't know.

THANKS FOR YOUR ADVICE THOUGH! I WILL CERTAINLY TAKE IT!!

[dw1305]

Hi all,

With repect to Nitrate ... I know it's hard to believe, and it is for me too ... but I test my water daily for Ammonia / Nitrite / Nitrate and Nitrate normally always comes up 0. It actually DOES go above that on occasion - but it's extremely rare and never goes above 10.

And - believe it or not, this goes the same for my Goldfish tank ... which has four goldfish. I thought initially that my test kit had gone bad and bought a new one. Since then (about six months ago) I bought even another one ...

Thought maybe I was doing the test wrong ... but I wasn't. Changed the test so that I shook the reagents even longer than recommended - 0.

Then ... one week ... I started getting a reading on Nitates, and it was pretty significant (but not over 10 or so).

So I cleaned the canister filter tubes and changed water. The next week - I had 0 again.

I use A LOT of POND MATRIX in all my filters - and it's mature. I've had most of it actively servicing one tank or another for over two years. I didn't buy the Pond Matrix for nitrate removal ... I just thought it was great media for ammonia and nitrite. But ...

Additionally - this NEVER happened until I switched to SAND in the cory tank about a year ago.

You need SLOW FLOW through it to kill parasites. So if you only have one filter that does all your mechanical / chemical / biological filtration, you're probably not gonna want to slow that one down enough to make a UVC effective. You will either have to get another canister filter or a pump that you can slow down to run the UVC. I have an Eheim 2215 filled with POND MATRIX that discharges through my UVC and the canister runs WAY SLOW - I have a flow indicator on the output that "spins" and restrict the discharge down enough to where it only spins about twice a second.

OK, I think the answer is possibly (based on the quote above from your post in "UVC filtration") is that you are likely to have anaerobic denitrification in the Eheim filter connected to the UV, which could account for your low NO3 readings.

Because you also have the HOB and air filters you don't need the filtration potential of this filter.

cheers Darrel

[corymaniac]

Good evening,

I think this quote refers to swampgorilla's UVC-filtered goldfish tank, not his Cory tank:

So if you only have one filter that does all your mechanical / chemical / biological filtration, you're probably not gonna want to slow that one down enough to make a UVC effective. You will either have to get another canister filter or a pump that you can slow down to run the UVC. I have an Eheim 2215 filled with POND MATRIX that discharges through my UVC and the canister runs WAY SLOW - I have a flow indicator on the output that "spins" and restrict the discharge down enough to where it only spins about twice a second.

Cheers, Lisa

[swampgorilla]

That's correct, Lisa.

I don't want anyone to think I know wtf. I have been raising fish for over 10 years but, judging from that thread Darrel posted - there's no way I'm as well versed on the nitrogen cycle as the people who posted in that thread.

I don't really know what's going on I just know that whatever it is ... I hope it keeps up!

[dw1305]

Hi all,

...... there's no way I'm as well versed on the nitrogen cycle as the people who posted in that thread.

I don't really know what's going on I just know that whatever it is ... I hope it keeps up!

I think if it works for you, keep on doing what you are doing. It isn't really a case of their being one right and a lot of wrong ways, there are a number of routes to arrive at your destination.

The nitrogen cycle, and potential ways of managing it, is discussed quite frequently on this forum, partially because rheophilic Loricariids etc are pretty unforgiving about any loss of water quality.

cheers Darrel