Woodcat?

muridae · Post by **muridae** » 08 Jan 2004, 01:38

Hi!

I bought this fish id'ed as a woodcat, but it doesn't look like any woodcat I know, nor as anything listed as a woodcat on this site. I hate common names! Who ever knows what they refer to? Sorry about the imperfect photos, but the fish wasn't too happy about being under a bright light and wouldn't hold still at all.

http://www.muridae.org/fish/cats/woodcat/

It's about 3.5 - 4 inches long, big round head, longer skinny body, with sharp spines on its fins. I know I've seen the fish on this site before, but I'm no expert and can't remember what it was. Help?

Sfamnun · Post by **Sfamnun** » 08 Jan 2004, 02:05

Got me curious too.
So i looked around the Cat-eLog and came up with

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 08 Jan 2004, 04:50

Sfamnun Wrote:

So i looked around the Cat-eLog and came up with Liosomadoras morrowi

Spot on. Sfamnun's ID is correct, however you fish is extremely emaciated and sickly looking. These are typically robust stocky built fish. Take a look at the CatE Log photos for an idea regarding how your fish is suppose to look.

If you can get it to eat you may be able to bring it around. I'd suggest trying nightcrawlers (from the bait store). Once it starts eating, start giving it worms injected with a good sized dose of Metronidazole. That will help knock down the flagellated protozoan population in the fish, which BTW is a likely cause of the "wasting away" we see in your fish.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Good luck.

kateswan · Post by **kateswan** » 08 Jan 2004, 13:58

Paul -

I'm interested in your advice to feed the cat worms injected with
metronidazole. Is there a rule of thumb for dosage/fish size/
how much worm it might eat?

I've got a couple of clown loaches that I suspect might have
the loach 'skinny' disease. This sounds like a good way to
address the problem.

Thanks -

Kathy S

muridae · Post by **muridae** » 08 Jan 2004, 17:39

Too late. I found him floating belly up just now.

If I had had a couple of days to treat him and fatten him up, he'd probably be okay, but I guess he was just too sick to make it.

pturley · Post by **pturley** » 08 Jan 2004, 18:11

Metronidazole can be used in a number of different ways. Including added to the water column. (I just know I'm going to get inquiries from people involved with the last Antibiotics debate!). Depends on if your loaches are eating or not, or if they can be moved to a bare bottom hospital tank or not.
A couple facts regarding Metronidazole:
- One, it has very specific activity against flagellated protozoans and not a whole lot else. More recently in humans the drug is used effectively against anerobic bacterial infections, so I am beginning to have some concern about the development of resistance factors. I'll post as I learn more about it.

-Two, it has very low toxicity to vertibrate life (and even higher invertibrates). Because of this it can be used at many times (2-3 x fairly safely) the recommended dosage so exact dosages are not much of a concern (within reason anyways).

-Three, (to answer Antibiotic related queries) to the best of my knowledge, flagellated protozoans have not shown an induced resistance to the compound and "bacterial" conjugation of resistance factors does not exist in protozoans.

As far as dosing your fish:
Direct Injection of prey (dosages are a bit more of a concern here but it is much more effective this way) -If they are eating, you can either soak the worms (I have even used blackworms overnight in a strong solution of Met. (1-2 capsules full per pint of water)) then feed to your fish, or directly inject it into the worms (larger fish, larger prey). These is some risk of overdosing using this method as once ingested, absorption is VERY high. Typical veterinarian oral dosages are in the 10-15 mg/kg range so it really doesn't take all that much. Find out the concentration of your source material, and dose accordingly.

If you can move the fish to a hospital tank, use one to two times the recommended dosage to the water. This is likely the more conservative and safer approach, however, the development of possible resistance factors in bacteria is a bit of a concern.

BTW: Due to the development of resistance factors, Metronidazole is about the only chemotherapeutic I use or recommend (outside of various salts or formalin). Depending on what I can find out about anerobic bacterial infections, that use may actually stop (as a bath anyway).

EDIT: See this link

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM053

muridae · Post by **muridae** » 08 Jan 2004, 18:15

Hey! Wait! Not dead yet!

I doubt that he'll survive, but just in case I dosed his water with some metronidazole. Anything else I can do as triage? I'll post over in the South American catfish forum now.