Corydoras Concussion?

[AZCatfish]

Hello everyone. New member here.

First of all, I want to say what a great site this is. I've been lurking here for a while and I've learned so much!

A little about myself. In the mid 1970's, when I was young, I was big into aquariums. I kept both fresh & salt water tanks and even worked in a tropical fish store for a few years - Brothers Fish in Kansas City. But then I went off to college, graduated and got a job that took all my time. So my aquarium hobby disappeared. But about a year ago I retired. It was during this time I discovered a 50 gallon SeaClear System II acrylic aquarium in a Goodwill store for $20 bucks. I didn't know what it was, but I could tell it was different and expensive. So I took it home, polished it, put it back together, got it running and rediscovered the joy tropical fish use to give me in my youth. (In fact, I liked it so much I ordered a second SeaClear System II aquarium and will be setting it up tomorrow as a Cory tank.)

My current tank is a peaceful community tetra tank with mostly Cardinal tetras and 3 Corydoras Sterbai cats. Back in the 1970's, we just considered Corydoras as utility type fishes. Get one or two for tank bottom clean-up of scraps. They were not considered a "destination" type fish. We were so wrong back then! My 3 Sterbai have turned out to be the stars of the tank! As time went by they quickly became my favorite fish and I could discern each ones personalities and favorite foods. It was like having 3 little puppies in my tank and I fell in love.

Long story short, my favorite Sterbai died two days ago. Jerome was a big, strong healthy active fish with a voracious appetite. Two days ago, when I got up he was normal with the exception of rapid breathing. As the day went on he declined, eventually losing his all his balance & equilibrium and dying. It all happened fast - in about 8 hours. I'm still in shock. There were no signs of disease and all the other fish are fine.

I am really upset he is gone. I think my wife thinks I am crazy, but he was a loved pet just like a cat or dog.

Jerome occasionally would rocket to the top of the tank for a gulp of air. He would go so fast he would leave the water and hit the light hood and sometimes I could hear the thunk. Is it possible that this gave him a concussion and caused his death?

I'm just looking for answers as to why my beautiful catfish is gone. Thank you. -Mike

[Tony4143]

Its possible age, how is the water quality in the tank?
Tony

[Jobro]

Sorry for your loss. Looks like Jerome was very dear to you. Losing a precious fish can be devastating. I think we all went through this at least once. I lost two sterbais, that acutally jumped out of the tank. Didn't expect that at all, back then.

Corys do sometimes shoot up to swallow some air. They can breath through their intestines. I could imagine him getting burned by the light. But if you couldn't see any marks on his skin I would guess that was not the case. Same about a concussion. There should have been some marks on his head or the likes. Corys are very hardy and I think they can get pretty old as well. Keep a good eye on the remaining two. If another one starts breathing fast, try doing a 50% waterchange. If they stay fine for next two weeks it might really have been some physical damage he got from jumping against the lid. Try to keep the water level a little lower and or add plenty of floating plants, that may form a sort of "airbag" to stop them from hitting the ceiling. Limnobium laevigatum is a pretty nice and eays to grow plant that gives shade to the fish and the long roots can add quite a lot to the atmosphere of a tank. You might consider this for your cory species tank. (Sand is a must-have for a cory tank)

Cheers Johannes

[AZCatfish]

I did test the water when I saw Jerome was breathing hard. Ammonia & Nitrites were zero. Nitrates were about 20. I did do an 18% water change in the tank to bring them down. This tank uses 100% RO water, since the Arizona tap water is terrible. I change 18% every week. These SeaClear System II tanks have a pretty robust wet/dry filtration system built in. I think they are designed for Salt Water. The pump runs 350 GPH. I've included a pic of the back of the tank so you can see the mechanical, biological and chemical filtration chambers.

When I first got the tank, I retrofitted the light hood with a Current Satellite plus pro LED fixture so it runs cool. If he hit the light hood bottom cover there is some "give." But if he hit the acrylic tank top that won't give and may of hurt him. The Limnobium laevigatum sounds like a good idea and I'll buy some.

I have to confess that Jerome was a female. I gave the name Jerome when I didn't know how to sex them. But on this site I learned how to sex my trio of Sterbai which turned out to be 2 girls (Jerome, Trixie) and a boy (Datsun). Jerome was the chubbiest catfish. She often engaged in spawning behavior but we never found eggs. So another theory is that she became egg bound. Is this possible & can they die from that?

My third theory is a new food I used two days prior to her death. She ate some Hikari Micro Wafers. I did tests afterwards and saw that these wafers swell to over twice their size after about 10 minutes in water. Could of these wafers swelled up inside her and would it have caused her death so quickly?

My new tank is also a SeaClear system II. These tanks discharge the clean water right above the substrate bed. I've done some tests and sand is too fine and creates a sand storm. However, CaribSea "Peace River" stays put, so I have to use that in the new tank. I have a patch of "Peace River" in my current tank and the cory's really seem to enjoy sifting & digging in it. I know its not as good as sand but its the finest substrate I can do right now. But I will see if I can somehow integrate a sand patch in a calm area of the new tank. I love watching them dig!

If I can figure out what caused Jerome's death I'll know not to repeat it. Thanks for all your help and advice. -Mike

[AZCatfish]

Sorry for your loss. Looks like Jerome was very dear to you. Losing a precious fish can be devastating. I think we all went through this at least once. I lost two sterbais, that acutally jumped out of the tank. Didn't expect that at all, back then.

Corys do sometimes shoot up to swallow some air. They can breath through their intestines. I could imagine him getting burned by the light. But if you couldn't see any marks on his skin I would guess that was not the case. Same about a concussion. There should have been some marks on his head or the likes. Corys are very hardy and I think they can get pretty old as well. Keep a good eye on the remaining two. If another one starts breathing fast, try doing a 50% waterchange. If they stay fine for next two weeks it might really have been some physical damage he got from jumping against the lid. Try to keep the water level a little lower and or add plenty of floating plants, that may form a sort of "airbag" to stop them from hitting the ceiling. Limnobium laevigatum is a pretty nice and eays to grow plant that gives shade to the fish and the long roots can add quite a lot to the atmosphere of a tank. You might consider this for your cory species tank. (Sand is a must-have for a cory tank)

Cheers Johannes

Hello Johannes,

I forgot to thank you for your kind words regarding Jerome. She was a very nice pet and was given a dignified water burial in a beautiful pond near our house. That way she can go back to the earth in as natural a setting as possible. And in her memory, I donated $100.00 to the PlanetCatfish site. -Mike

[Jobro]

My third theory is a new food I used two days prior to her death. She ate some Hikari Micro Wafers. I did tests afterwards and saw that these wafers swell to over twice their size after about 10 minutes in water. Could of these wafers swelled up inside her and would it have caused her death so quickly?

I feel like that would be the most likely theory, if she ate some of those wafers. It is well known, that food like this can cause problems for a lot of fish. It may not be common to corydoras but it could well be, if these micro wafers are small enough to fit into their mouths.

Sand would be best. Maybe you can redirect the waterflow with an elbow piece or something like that? If you actually want to do a cory tank, than enabling a sand floor should be one of the top priorities.

Good, that you still have a pair of them. Forget about those wafers, Give them some frozen food treats. I would start with artemia/brineshrimp, as they tend to sink to the bottom and usually never cause problems with any fish. They should start spawning soon with your soft water and a good diet. Though you might want to try more than the 18% WC to trigger a spawn. 50% is a good start. If the temperature drops by 5°C during a wc that's just right for them.

I am no Cory expert. But there is plenty of good information out there on the forum and I'm sure other members will be happy to help you.

[TwoTankAmin]

Fish can suffer from things like heart attack, stroke etc. Not every fish death in out tanks can be laid at the feet of a specific disease, virus or parasite. Some fish are born with congenital defects as well. Sometimes fish appear to die for no reason, and sometime the reason is actually something one cannot prevent or cure.

About a dozen years ago I lost one of my large clown loaches. Somebody very experienced suggested I put it in the freezer and ship it to him and he would do a basic autopsy. the report was he could find no signs of disease or parasites. We were left to conclude it was likely something such as a heart attack, stroke etc.

The other side of the coin here is that when we do something by mistake or some beyond our control occurs which is harmful or fatal to fish in a tank, it is a rare thing that it will only effect one or two fish. Contaminants usually wreck havoc on many or all inhabitants.

Lastly, because out fish are in confined space combined with the natural instant of most fish to flee when they see motion, it is possible for a frightened fish to slam into the glass. I have seen this a few time in my tank. I lost a female dwarf flame gourami when the male chased it hard into the glass- I happened to see it when I entered the room where the tank was. I could here it as well. She died within a few hours. A few years later I had a discus slam into the glass. The result was by the next day it could only swim face down. I let it live in its own tank where it managed for about another 6 months. I am not sure it would not have been kinder had I euthanized it right away.

Its hard losing a fish one has had for a while. But do not blame yourself for not seeing something sooner or not being able to do anything, sometimes that is just the way it is.

[AZCatfish]

Thank you Johannes for your reply. I do have 3 types of frozen brine shrimp, Baby, Adult and Spirulina. And blood worms and daphina. I ordered these from the Doctors Foster & Smith web site which I highly recommend! And I did get a bag of CaribSea Sunset Gold sand to try.

And thank you TwoTankAmin for your consoling words. Everyone else in the tank is fine, so I'll probably never figure out what happened to Jerome. Jerome was a big presence in the tank. She was the bold leader. The two other Sterbai corys have become more timid. I know they felt more confident when Jerome was around. I am sure they know Jerome is missing, and don't understand why. Perhaps they even grieve. If they can experience affection, fear, hunger, joy, etc. then why not grief?

My other tank is close to being ready to fill. Once it cycles I'll use it as a quarantine tank so I can get the Sterbai group up to six. Thank you again. -Mike

[AZCatfish]

My third theory is a new food I used two days prior to her death. She ate some Hikari Micro Wafers. I did tests afterwards and saw that these wafers swell to over twice their size after about 10 minutes in water. Could of these wafers swelled up inside her and would it have caused her death so quickly?

I feel like that would be the most likely theory, if she ate some of those wafers. It is well known, that food like this can cause problems for a lot of fish. It may not be common to corydoras but it could well be, if these micro wafers are small enough to fit into their mouths.

Can food swelling like this be good for any fishes digestive track? What if that burger I ate for lunch did this?

[Lycosid]

We did some basic tests on the food my electric catfish eats (Hikari Sinking Carnivore Pellets) and discovered that the dry pellets weighed only about 30% of what the wet ones did. So yes, dry pellets can swell a lot. I don't worry about it with the electric catfish because he generally doesn't even react to food until it hits the bottom (which requires it to take on significant amounts of water) and he always takes more time to actually move out of his hiding tube and find the food. Given that, I think the pellets are done swelling when he eats them. However, it's easy to imagine that fish who eat faster could eat the pellet before it absorbed all the water it could. In theory, one could pre-swell the pellet by soaking it in some tank water for several minutes before feeding them to the fish. However, in practice I'd just avoid a food that is suspected of causing complications.

[AZCatfish]

We did some basic tests on the food my electric catfish eats (Hikari Sinking Carnivore Pellets) and discovered that the dry pellets weighed only about 30% of what the wet ones did. So yes, dry pellets can swell a lot. I don't worry about it with the electric catfish because he generally doesn't even react to food until it hits the bottom (which requires it to take on significant amounts of water) and he always takes more time to actually move out of his hiding tube and find the food. Given that, I think the pellets are done swelling when he eats them. However, it's easy to imagine that fish who eat faster could eat the pellet before it absorbed all the water it could. In theory, one could pre-swell the pellet by soaking it in some tank water for several minutes before feeding them to the fish. However, in practice I'd just avoid a food that is suspected of causing complications.

Jerome was a voracious eater. She was a catfish that like to hit the ground running, so to speak, when it came to food. I'm sure she wolfed down the majority of these before the other fish even knew they were there and before they could hydrate. I've thrown them away to be on the safe side and will test any future new foods for swelling before feeding.

Very cool about the electric catfish. 350 Volts of fun!

[Lycosid]

Very cool about the electric catfish. 350 Volts of fun!

Less cool when you take the volts through your thumb. Still, he's a little guy so it doesn't hurt too bad yet.

Interestingly, the voltages reported for these guys seem to vary by about 100V - I've seen as high as 450V and yet you're also not the first person to suggest it's 350V instead. 400V is also common. These are all pretty round numbers and I'm beginning to wonder if any of these numbers were well-measured, especially since they are often unsourced and the numbers reported seem to be the same in older papers as in newer ones, which suggests that they may all be very old measurements. Also, there's the whole Malapterurus revision mess, so who knows which species the measurements actually came from.

[AZCatfish]

Very cool about the electric catfish. 350 Volts of fun!

Less cool when you take the volts through your thumb. Still, he's a little guy so it doesn't hurt too bad yet.

Interestingly, the voltages reported for these guys seem to vary by about 100V - I've seen as high as 450V and yet you're also not the first person to suggest it's 350V instead. 400V is also common. These are all pretty round numbers and I'm beginning to wonder if any of these numbers were well-measured, especially since they are often unsourced and the numbers reported seem to be the same in older papers as in newer ones, which suggests that they may all be very old measurements. Also, there's the whole Malapterurus revision mess, so who knows which species the measurements actually came from.

Make sure to watch National Geographic's "Monster Fish" program. One episode is on electric eels. They put meters on their discharge and, if I remember right, one large angry fellow output 800 volts!

[cowboyish1]

Sorry for your loss. It is refreshing to see how closely you bond with your fish. People think I'm weird for how I bond with mine. And I do believe they grieve. They are living, feeling critters after all.

[AZCatfish]

Thank you. I think they are much more than they appear to be and what people give them credit for.