Copper pipe caves.

[Kd67]

Has anyone here used copper pipe as caves, and if not is there any reason why I should not do so? Looking to create smaller sized caves for BNs but would like something that blends in better with the driftwood than pvc or square stone caves. Thanks for any info.

[bekateen]

Hi Kd67

Copper is extremely toxic to animals and plants alike. Ionized copper is a common ingredient in lots of medicines because of its ability to kill and control parasites and pathogens, but it can also be lethal to fish. True, you're talking about using copper metal and not copper solution, but the line is too fine to consider innocuous.

Honestly, I've never heard of anyone using copper pipes for caves, but there are so many other options available for home made caves (Home-made pleco spawning caves), not to mention more and more commercially available cheap clay caves (e.g., plecocaves.com), I don't know why someone would try copper pipes... I wouldn't risk it even with common BNs!

If you know something about people using copper caves successfully, I'd be interested to learn, but I don't think I'd every try them myself.

Proceed with caution (actually what I want to say is, "RUN THE OTHER WAY!," but I'll restrain myself).

Looking to create smaller sized caves for BNs but would like something that blends in better with the driftwood than pvc or square stone caves. Thanks for any info.

A much better solution is bamboo pipe poles. In the USA, you can buy 6-8 foot lengths of 1", 1.5", or 2" diameter bamboo poles at garden stores or hardware stores (I buy mine at Orchard Supply Hardware. A web example is: http://www.gemplers.com/product/217552/ ... uper-poles). A 1'-2" diameter pipe costs less than $10, and you cut it yourself with an ordinary saw - no fancy tools needed. Depending on the number of "nodes" (bumbs/joints) along the pole, you can get about 6-7 caves out of one pole, plus you'll also have some left-over pipes (open at both ends) to provide additional hiding places. When choosing a pole, pick one that has a node very close to each end of the pipe. That way, you should be able to cut one extra cave from the pipe.

When I buy the poles, I inspect them and I avoid poles that have lengthwise splits along the bamboo. This is strictly for personal preference and it shouldn't harm the functionality of the caves as long as there's only one split, even if it's big and even if it runs the length of the bamboo. This is because when you put split bamboo in water, the bamboo expands and warps back into its original shape, closing the split and making the cave good. That said, if there are two or more parallel splits, that is bad because when you cut the bamboo to length, a portion of the bamboo may fall away, creating a space that cannot close and then your cave is not a cave.

After I find good bamboo pieces, I cut them in 4" to 7" lengths, then I boil the pipes before placing them in the aquarium. My plecos love them, and I've had plenty of spawns in them (BNs and clowns). New bamboo caves will slowly start to peel or delaminate its outer and inner linings. When I see this i remove the caves and rinse them under running water to flush out these peels, then put the caves back in the aquarium. After they peel once, they typically never do it again.

Cheers, Eric

[Bas Pels]

When a student, I did resaerch after the toxidity of copper. Normal plumbing in NL is made of copper, so we all drink watrer with a bit of copper.

This is around 1-5 ppm, but a university, where nothing happens in the weekends, can reach 20 ppm on a Monday

one can see the hormones in fishes being changed in a concentration as low as 10 ppm. Obviously, the balance is also distorted.

Copper is bad, but more metals are bad. The only good way to approach metals in aquarium circumstances is to keep them out of the water, and if that is not possible coat them with epoxy. Including iron

[TwoTankAmin]

Trying to remember about copper pipes. In the states older houses all pretty much have copper pipes. My home does for sure. Newer homes may use PVC.

I seem to recall a few facts about copper pipes. For one the lower the pH the worse the potential problem. Once below 6.5 you need to deal with it. Under more normal conditions new copper pipes are the most like to leech copper, But the flow of water though the pipes should result in a layer building up which tend to prevent leeching. Pipes where the water is not run for extended periods are a greater risk to lose this coating and leeching.

Here is an interesting review paper on the subject http://www.fwr.org/copper.pdf from 2003.

I would hate for my plecos to be sucking/rasping on copper.

[bekateen]

I would hate for my plecos to be sucking/rasping on copper.

Indeed.

The take-home lesson is obvious. In fact it is so fundamental that it is woven into the fabric of the Christian religion! I've heard it said that Christianity is merely a set of rules - ideas for practical and upright living, many of them focused on agriculture and money-management. Well frankly, I have evidence that, in addition to its other higher purposes, Christianity was clearly designed to teach us how to care for and breed plecos!!! As proof, watch this clip from a popular Christian educational video for children. Watch only the first 21 seconds, because the remainder of the video is not pertinent to this thread. Pay particular attention to Larry's interjection at the 11/12 second mark.

Cheers!
Eric

Direct YouTube link: Veggietales: "And So What We Have Learned" song (from three movies)

[Kd67]

Thanks for all the info. Going to pass on the copper and will take a look around for some bamboo, which I hadn't even considered as an option.