Anybody know about super white 236 morphs?

[TwoTankAmin]

I have been offered the chance to purchase what is described as super white L236 which are the product of line breeding. I have seen pictures of adults, juvies and fry and the adults look amazing, imo. I am being offered fish in the 3-4 cm size range. I have been told about 70% of a spawn breeds true to the pattern. Pricing perspective- they sell for about 20% more than zebras of comparable size.

Has anybody seen these or know anything about them? My understanding is they are coming from Europe. I have to make a decision in the next 36 hours or so. Any thoughts appreciated.

[Jools]

Yes, I've seen them and also I think Rajanta is produced them too. L236 is essentially a super white morph anyway - I guess these are just a bit whiter.

[TwoTankAmin]

@Jools
Here is what I am seeing:





And that leaves my finakl question, for what sort of price have you seen them selling?

[Jools]

I genuinely don't know.

Jools

[TwoTankAmin]

What I do know is these fish have more white than my 236 that originated from the stock when Jools and Eric got them at the same event. Mine were offspring from those fish.

In looking at the Rajanta site their L173 and the ones I have do not look the same. The 173b I have and what they show are somewhat similar. But then they are supposed to be a variable looking offspring of 173. I have 7 different fish which I posted here years back. I agree with the Rajanta description on the 173 on size although I am not sure on behavior. I have not gotten that many eggs from mine so far.

By way of turning back to the 236 topic. I find they tend to be a tad smaller than zebras and also that they will begin to spawn much sooner. I am now getting fry from the offspring of the parents acquired at about 1.75 inches TL in the summer of 2012. They gave me the first spawn in March 2014. I find these are also somewhat variable in pattern.

The super whites above are awfully hard to resist. I am looking at pricing a bit higher than for zebras. This is a one shot deal and I need to commit tonight. I think I have to get them. I am just a big sucker for the black and white Hypans. This will also be my last "species" to be acquired with the hopes of having them spawn. I do not imagine I will be doing this 3 years from now.

[bekateen]

They are really pretty TTA. I'm not telling you what to do... but they ARE really pretty.

[TwoTankAmin]

@bekateen
That is my problem. I keep trying to figure out a way not to get them and I can't. Like I said, I am a sucker for B&W plecos.

[Narwhal72]

They are really pretty. I like the whiter looking wormline plecos myself.

[Brian2014]

I only know about three lines in Europe! the Will line the Budrovcan line and the Glaser line but as you have said most of the super whites are a off white color. I have a group of L236 Budrovcan some super whites as seen in second photo below, i know there is a cross in Japan as can been seen in the white submarine video which is a cross with L066 to try and get more white and a more finer pattern but it tends to be bulkier in build(first photo). There is a great article in Amazonas magazine where Robert talks about a F7 F8 generation which are almost snow-white! I have always loved the black and white hypan so i would say if you have the spare tanks and money just buy them

[TwoTankAmin]

@Brian2014
I wish you would stop posting pictures of such pretty fish I do not have

I did a wire transfer yesterday. The only reason I assume they are originating in Europe is they were priced in Euro and I had to do a conversion so I sent the proper amount in dollars. In the end, I do not care where they originated as much as that they are as advertised and that they arrive in good health.

My current L236 are descended from the Budrovcan line. I was told the fish I will be getting tend to breed about 70% true to the "ideal" look. I sure hope so.

[Brian2014]

Haha i admit it! i do it to myself by being on to many forums both in Europe and Japan ;)
I have never ordered plecs from another country i hope they make it to you happy and healthy, and you will have to keep us uptodate and maybe pass on some contact details

[carkichi]

beautiful. Good luck TTA . Please post when you get them.

Brain2014: I am envious. Have yours 236s bred yet?

[Linus_Cello]

2tankamin, you coming to the catfish convention in Oct? If so, would love to hear how these are doing.

[TwoTankAmin]

@Linus_Cello
I am coming - will be there Thursday. I am hoping to bring a few of them for show.

[Orinocensis1]

How many are you reciving? I'm jealous lol.

[TwoTankAmin]

Way more than I would buy normally. My original order was for 15 fish. But when it finally worked out it was a lot more, closer to 50 than to 15. I have had the 'standard" 236 for several years. My experience has been they mature faster than zebras or L173 and will also spawn much sooner.

I plan to grow them out until next year and then start to segregate them by patterning. My goal is to keep a certain look for myself and then I would consider selling some of the rest. But, as the saying goes, "The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft a-gley."

The worst part is they are small and are over priced, But this is my last shot at to get a new unusually patterned wormline Hypan expressly to get spawns from if I am lucky. Besides zebras, the look I would most like to have is one which is really rare, http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/spe ... es_id=1634 I am not sure if it might even show up in any of the fish I have, but if it does.......

This F2 offspring of my L173b is the closest I have seen in my fish.

[Orinocensis1]

I'm interested in some when you decide to sell. I been after these for quite sometime. And that's a very beautiful L173b pattern is amazing!

I got some wild caught hypancistrus from rio xingu back in May, still not sure what they are.. Few are super white and not much black

[TwoTankAmin]

Those fish are very nice looking and point up the fact that the world of wormline Hypans is one of variability. Many may be natural hybrids, some may be real species. The ones I have had beside zebras are highly variable in terms of how they look as they grow from fry into adults and beyond. They also tend to have some variability in how they look in adulthood.

I now a second 173b with a similar pattern. I am not sure if that pattern will hold into later life which I sure hope it will.

If you are coming to CatCon next month I will be on the 3rd floor selling some plecos. I also hope to bring a few, not for sale, for showing and asking for any comments about as well.

[Orinocensis1]

In my opinion, I think L236 is a natural hybrid. To me the give away is how variable the patterns are and also color from super white to cream.

Would love to go but with my work schdule I won't be able to pull it off this year, hopefully next year. Can't wait for pics of your fish and good luck with the project, keep me in mind when you are ready to sell some of even fry one day ;)

[HaakonH]

Orinocensis1; your fish might actually be L470, a.k.a. Hypancistrus sp. "Mimic". They are either that, or L400. However, yours seem to have a matching profile for L470 (small eyes, low bodyshape, long head/nose - especially in that last one). Could be both L400 and L470 there, they will certainly come in mixed. How big are they now? 2-3''?

About the L236: It's a label for a certain type of pattern. This pattern can be found in all the Xingu forms of Hypancistrus. They can all be line bred in captivity to further strengthen these traits (less black, more white). You can do this with any of the Xingu forms, if you have enough time and patience (like Budrovcan did with his L236 line).

Haakon

[Brian2014]

I just noticed on L250 it says 9 Registered Keepers!! All the info out there always said there was only ever 8 plecs and nearly all of them went to Japan for silly money!! Now i have been told by a few contacts in Japan there are only 2 are left both in Japan ( 1 in pic below) Just out of curiosity are the L250 kept by those 9 other keepers still alive?

[TwoTankAmin]

That info re 8 specimens and 9 keepers always makes me laugh. Maybe they rotate the fish? How will they ever spawn them since it takes more than one fish for that?
The odds that 250 is an actual species are extremely low as far as I am concerned. I suppose they could be a species which had only 8 surviving member?

If Brian's info is correct, these 8 fish were never spawned and, unless the final two are both sexes, they never will. But consider how much money people would be willing to pay for some of these and then ask yourself why if there were more of them to be found in the wild, those who collect such fish should have been sparing no effort to capture more if that were even remotely possible.

When it comes to the wormline Hypans there is a dichotomy between genetics and looks. Those folks who are scientifically oriented focus on factors like location, potential to be a species and all the facts which science employs. Then there are the folks like some of us (myself included) who are attracted to the patterning. We are often attracted by the appearance of the fish as much or even more than the genetics and classifications. As long as we are realistic in how we approach this, I see no reason why not to seek out a specific look which appeals to us.

As always, just my opinion here.

[Orinocensis1]

I actually have a separate group of L470 I got from a different source. These are much bigger around 3" and my mimics are staying relatively small at around 2.5"-2.75". Could be L400 but patterns are much different then the L400 I have seen around. Love them regardless and trying to spawn both these and my L470.

Seems like lots of these species carry a "wormline" gene. This is a L333 bred in captivity from my friend

[Acanthicus]

Heho,

it says 9 keepers, because everybody can enter himself as a keeper. And still so many people need to keep a number instead of a fish that they surely have the one and only true 250s. It'll never end. L 250 is nothing else than a misscoloured H. zebra, first it was an idea of ours, later it was proven by a normal H. zebra that changed into a L 250. Ever wondered why nobody bred L 250? The offspring look like H. zebra, and I would keep that a secret myself I would be one of the few persons to keep this fish.

[HaakonH]

Hey,

L470

male:

L470

female:

These are just over 10 cm (4'') SL. L470 is not a particularly small Hypancistrus species, it grows to the same size as i.e. L400.

Haakon

[Orinocensis1]

Very nice fish. Are they alow growers? Mine are growing but not fast

Joe

[YSR50]

Any update on this?

[TwoTankAmin]

They have been delayed. The breeder had a mishap and lost the fish ready to ship. He has more fry but they need a bit more growout time. For those fish I will be a little bit patient.

[TwoTankAmin]

If all goes as planned, I should be getting these fish late Friday evening. Getting to New York City airports from where I live is not a great distance, but the traffic is really awful most times. So when I have to get fish airport to airport, I try to arrange for a late night pick-up time. That way I am not fighting bumper to bumper traffic both ways. I also need to get a tank set up for them.

[bekateen]

Good luck, TTA!