Live tips to save cory eggs

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 19 Feb 2016, 07:00

Hi Francois,

As for my previous spawns, I've had decent survival (except for my first spawning: they were over a month old when I accidentally unplugged the heater on Thanksgiving, and then forgot to plug it back in; those babies all died overnight), but the egg clutches have not been so large. Each spawn produces more eggs, and I think this spawn at 68 eggs is about my largest.

As for spitting the eggs into two batches, with and without snails, that is would be a good control experiment, but it would help if something about the water caused the cell lysis and the waters are coming from the same source. That said, I've recently been informed that baby perugiae tend to survive very well if just left with mom, so even if ramshorn snails do reduce fungusing, it may be that I'm just better off leaving them with mom.

Cheers, Eric

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 04 Mar 2016, 07:46

One more to add to the list: here some Corydoras paleatus eggs have survived treatment with Ramshorn snail and were born healthy! They are now growing up with some C.schultzei black.

Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
Fundulopanchax gresensis Takwai francoisMtl Montreal,Qc

Cheers,
Francois

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 04 Mar 2016, 11:33

Hi Francois,
You're building a nice list of successes!
Cheers, Eric

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 10 Mar 2016, 06:16

bekateen wrote:Hi Francois,
You're building a nice list of successes!
Cheers, Eric

Yes Eric, it seems canadian winter is good for them. Last year, CW010 were breeding each three weeks, they then stop at spring and summer time...
I am not the only one to have some success, syno321 just sent me a PM to add weitzmani and c120. The race is on! Which cory is next? Reading your post (What do ambiacus fry look like?), should we add your C.aeneus and C.ambiacus to that list of success?

Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc

Cheers,
Francois

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 10 Mar 2016, 06:44

Hi Francois,

You can add my aeneus (although I see that you already have aeneus on your list), but please wait before you add ambiacus. The color pattern in these fry sure looks like they will be ambiacus, and I don't recall my trilineatus fry looking like this when so young, but I want to give them more time to mature before I definitively settle that they are ambiacus. I'm 95+% confident that they are ambiacus, but I want to make sure that some big black dot doesn't start to develop on the dorsal fin as they age (in which case they are just trilineatus).

With both my current aeneus and these suspect ambiacus juvies, I should let you know that I did not use the same incubation cups as I used in my earlier experiments. Rather, I dumped my most recent eggs directly into my 2.5 gal tank hatchery/fry tank which has a 78F heater and a sponge filter, and into which I've added a group of ramshorn snails. So these eggs did rely on the RH snails to prevent fungusing (with no additional chemical protection (no methylene blue, etc)), even though they weren't raised in the confines of the small bowls with daily water changes. I did notice a few fungused eggs in this larger container (compared to what I saw in the little cups), but the vast majority of the eggs hatched into nice fry.

As I said above, I'm almost 100% confident these are ambiacus. Besides their color pattern (the strong black color of the dorsal fin spine), there are two other items I've noticed which incline me towards this conclusion are that (1) these juvies are growing much more vigorously than my trilineatus have in the past, and (2) these juvies are really easily scared; that is also true of my ambiacus parents, but is not as true of my trilineatus (either my parents or past juvies).

Cheers, Eric

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 12 Mar 2016, 07:01

Hi Eric,
This list is for Cory eggs that were protected from fungus through the use of Ramshorn snails. If you are convince those snails did protect eggs, then your cory should be added into that list. Obviously using small containers or cups allow to watch what is happening to each egg almost individually and for sure allow to count eggs before and after incubation time. However, it may not be the only way to get snail protection. Actually I do use aged water but no air line, you used tank water, others may feel more comfortable to add one air line, etc... So already with the use of small containers, protocols can vary. One thing which is constant: in each case so far snails protected eggs from fungus without the use of chemicals.
Yes, Corydoras aeneus is already into the list but this was done away from your place and your aeneus will be independent confirmation of the previous one. I was wondering if I should leave triplicate of CW010, but it shows robustness of this way of doing. So why not adding your ?
We will wait for the that you alleviate the uncertainty of their identification. Although it will be nice if they could be , that way it will be another genera for which Ramshorn snails are protective!
Cheers,
francois

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 12 Mar 2016, 14:44

Hi Francois,
Indeed you are right. Please do add my aeneus to your list. I'll let you know about the other species as I confirm their IDs.

Cheers, Eric

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 20 Mar 2016, 21:20

Hi Francois,

Without a doubt my juveniles are . You can add them to the list. Sadly, no ambiacus fry in the group at all.

Cheers, Eric

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 24 Mar 2016, 06:14

bekateen wrote:Hi Francois,
Without a doubt my juveniles are
Scleromystax barbatus
. You can add them to the list. Sadly, no ambiacus fry in the group at all.
Cheers, Eric

Hi Eric,
With your C.aeneus and S.barbatus, this list start to be significant: 20 catfish so far, and the word is spreading outside of catfish eggs protection as Jody from Ottawa got success with his angel fish eggs and is now trying Pundamillia nyererei a mouthbrooder cichlid (I put the link below).

Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)

Non Catfish:
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Pterophyllum scalare (angel fish) Jody Ottawa On (OVAS forum)

Cheers,
Francois

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 30 Mar 2016, 02:29

Hello Francois (@francoisMtl),

You can add to your list.

These were incubated like my trilineatus eggs, in a small container of water, ~1-2cm deep, no aeration, floating on surface of parents' tank, with daily pour-dip-and-refill water changes from parents' tank. Incubated for 5.5-6 days with 3-4 Ramshorn snails of different sizes, very small to pretty big. Not all eggs were fertile and not all will hatch. But the Ramshorn snails didn't eat the eggs, and no fungus developed.

Cheers, Eric

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 05 Apr 2016, 06:49

Hi Eric,
Number of Corydoras eggs saved with planorbus increase with your and some here in my tanks and cups.! It is almost to easy once we got them to spawn. Who is next?
Cheers,
francois

Catfish:
Loricariidae - Plecos et al
Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Callichthyidae - Corys et al
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)

Non Catfish:
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Pterophyllum scalare (angel fish) Jody Ottawa On (OVAS forum)

pleconut · Post by **pleconut** » 30 Apr 2016, 00:21

First thing tomorrow morning I will be transferring my recently laid Adolfi cory eggs (currently in a tumbler with red cherry shrimp -the reason is as the eggs tumble the shrimps catch and clean them. None at all have fungussed. Also I have a planorbus snail cleaning egg fragments at the bottom of the tumbler I don't think several of the retrieved eggs were intact. The eggs will be transferred to the breeder box so that the fry can take the first gulp of air. Also into the breeder box will go eggs, planorbus and Malaysian trumpet snails and the shrimp. Already there's signs of fry development inside the eggs. The breeder box is air supplied contains Indian almond leaves it has a slight residual build up on the mesh sides which I'm hoping will be a food source for the fry.

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 18 May 2016, 07:21

Hi Teresa,
When I tested either gammarus, planorbus or a mix of planorbus and cherry shrimp, there was no agitation and those things were able to turn around eggs to clean them all. One drawback with gammarus and shrimp are during my daily water change, they tend to go with old water... I suppose you do not have this problem as your water is constantly renewed in the egg tumbler.
As you can see on pict in previous page, my planorbus do not look exactly the same as your, maybe same gender but different species. Actually, I do not know the exact species name of the one i used.... Maybe try your planorbe once with a limited number of eggs, just to see.
Can you say for sure shrimp or your planorbe protected adolfi cory eggs? If so we will need to add it to the list.
Here some more success with hatched eggs of Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Rayfield", plus some more panda and venezuelanus. The other corys have not yet started to spawn or for those who did already they have stoped.
Cheers,
francois

Catfish:
Loricariidae - Plecos et al
Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Callichthyidae - Corys et al
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)

Non Catfish:
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Rayfield" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Pterophyllum scalare (angel fish) Jody Ottawa On (OVAS forum)

pleconut · Post by **pleconut** » 18 May 2016, 21:25

Hi Francios. I can definitely say the shrimp keep the eggs free of fungus. Two spawns of around 40 eggs that were collected only one egg was fungussed out of all of them all as they catch and clean the eggs and the movement of the tumbler doesnt allow them to hold the eggs long enough to damage them. I will add though in the first spawn I added 5 large cherry shrimp about 1.5 cms size. 1 planorbus snail while the snail kept tumbler clean the 5 adult shrimp i think damaged some of the eggs as numbers had depleted although the eggs were fertile. So in the second spawn i added three 8mm red cherry shrimp they were just as effective as the larger but a lot more eggs successfully hatched some were infertile as a new female was involved which the shrimp broke down. My conclusion is red cherry shrimp need to be small in size and few in number for a successful yeild. How it will work in a still container i wouldn't know maybe the shrimp will need to be very small so eggs aren't damaged. Have fry I'm raising more challenging obviously.

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 23 May 2016, 05:42

Some update with @pleconut adolfi cory with shrimps, and cory cw030 from syno321.

Catfish:
Loricariidae - Plecos et al
Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Callichthyidae - Corys et al
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
pleconut Bournemouth UK (planetcatfish) with cherry shrimps.
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PlanetCatFish)
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
MChambers Washington DC (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM PlanetCatFish)
bekateen Stockton CA (PlanetCatFish)

Non Catfish:
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Rayfield" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Pterophyllum scalare (angel fish) Jody Ottawa On (OVAS forum)

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 30 Aug 2016, 09:02

Some news on few more spawn of Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Rayfield" and one spawn of Corydoras aeneus albinos none of them did get fungus upon incubation with ramshorn snails.

MortenDAD · Post by **MortenDAD** » 11 Nov 2016, 15:12

New to this forum; but I've raised several batches of corys using ramshorns and cherry shrimp as cleanup crew, so if the list needs adding to - Panda, Habrosus, Rabauty, Paleatus are go from Denmark.
As is Danio Margaritatus

MChambers · Post by **MChambers** » 11 Nov 2016, 21:54

You can add Corydoras gossei to the list.

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 17 Nov 2016, 07:56

Some news!
I discussed with a cory expert who came to visit Montreal just before CatCon and he told me he was taking away fungused eggs. I got the feeling when I was taking eggs a day after spawning that ratio was not as good as when eggs were collected right away. It was like fungus will start spreading inside the eggs and affect developing embryo.
I tested on Archocentrus centrarchus eggs with or without snails. Eggs without snail start fungusing. After embryo hatched, I added snail in the "no snail container" for two days and took a picture of both no snail and with snails container. Eggs that started to fungus lost their integrity and were completly absorbed by snails whereas snails did not touch eggs that were protected from the beginning.
Images are maybe better:
Archocentrus centrarchus eggs: No snail incubation cup on Oct22

Archocentrus centrarchus eggs: No snail incubation, then snail for two days on Oct24

Archocentrus centrarchus eggs: Snails all the time picture on Oct24 (two days after last fertile eggs hatch

Just for the fun of it, eggs

They were very large eggs and took a week to hatch when other that hatch here so far take 3 to 5 days.
Those cory metae fry hatch very large compare to that fortunatly hatch the same days. C.venezuelanus spawn 3 days after C.metae, pefect for a side by side comparison.
C.metae fryes are marked with an arrow:

Updated list with species eggs protected with snails from MChambers, MortenDAD, and mine:

Catfish:
Loricariidae - Plecos et al
Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Callichthyidae - Corys et al
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
pleconut Bournemouth UK (with cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA
syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC
syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
bekateen Stockton CA
MChambers Washington DC
MChambers Washington DC
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
bekateen Stockton CA

Non Catfish:
Archocentrus centrarchus francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Danio Margaritatus MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Rayfield" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Pterophyllum scalare (angel fish) Jody Ottawa On (OVAS forum)

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 02 Dec 2016, 06:52

Here is a picture with eggs from three differents corydoras species in the same cup for direct comparison. Eggs that are white and or light cream are non fertilized.
Corydoras venezuelanus light brown, Corydoras metae dark brown, and Corydoras panda dark grey.
C.metae eggs are slightly larger than those from C.panda and almost 1.5 to 2 time bigger than C.venezuelanus. Sure cory experts may know that already but I kind of find it fun enough to mention it in previous message and since I have a picture for it. All those eggs were not spawn on the same days and they are at different stage of development with C.panda near hatching time.

Updated list with species eggs protected with snails, with albino C.aeneus :

Catfish:
Loricariidae - Plecos et al
Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Callichthyidae - Corys et al
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
pleconut Bournemouth UK (with cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA
albinos francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC
syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
bekateen Stockton CA
MChambers Washington DC
MChambers Washington DC
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
bekateen Stockton CA

Non Catfish:
Archocentrus centrarchus francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Danio Margaritatus MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Rayfield" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Pterophyllum scalare (angel fish) Jody Ottawa On (OVAS forum)

MChambers · Post by **MChambers** » 11 Dec 2016, 22:38

You can add CW014 to the list!

syno321 · Post by **syno321** » 12 Dec 2016, 05:24

Add Aspidoras spilotus

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 13 Dec 2016, 19:01

Just did a test with Ancistrus sp Gold eggs with planorbes or Gammarus. Second batch of eggs was incubated with planorbs and Gammarus and I lots them, when the first spawn with only planorbs went fine. This time I tried planorbs or Gammarus in separate cups, some pictures will follow.

Updated list with species eggs protected with snails, new entries:
Aspidoras spilotus from syno321 and CW014 from MChambers.
25 distincts species of Callichthyidae so far whose eggs were protected with planorbs, with some of this 25 species, replicated at different locations.
Thanks guys to have tested planorbs on your eggs. Do you still use other methods or you just throw your eggs in a cup with planorbs? Here, it seems to work each time with all cory eggs found in my tanks, so no more chemical in use.

Keep this list up and growing!

Catfish:
Loricariidae - Plecos et al
Ancistrus sp. (Gold) ? francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Callichthyidae - Corys et al
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab
pleconut Bournemouth UK (with cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA
albinos francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC
syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab
Corydoras MChambers Washington DC
Corydoras syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
bekateen Stockton CA
MChambers Washington DC
MChambers Washington DC
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
(venezuelanus black) francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
bekateen Stockton CA
francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
syno321 Edmonton Ab (PM)
bekateen Stockton CA

Non Catfish:
Archocentrus centrarchus francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Danio Margaritatus MortenDAD Zealand, Denmark (Planorb and cherry shrimps)
Fundulopanchax gresensi "Takwai" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Fundulopanchax nigerianus "Rayfield" francoisMtl Montreal,Qc
Pterophyllum scalare (angel fish) Jody Ottawa On (OVAS forum)

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 13 Dec 2016, 19:24

Hi Francois,

I need to add a negative report to your list: On Facebook page, someone of very high repute (who shall remain anonymous unless they wish to report it themselves) showed photos of ramshorn snails eating eggs. Perhaps a different species of ramshorn snail is involved there? or perhaps the snails were particularly hungry? I don't know - I can't account for the result. But from the photos I thought the eggs looked good, so I don't believe it was simply a matter of the snails eating unfertilized or fungused eggs.

I don't know how to represent this in the context of your positive data, but I think it is just as valuable to report negative results where ramshorn snails eat eggs, so readers can be forewarned in case any questions or concerns exist.

Cheers, Eric

MChambers · Post by **MChambers** » 13 Dec 2016, 21:54

I have this theory that perhaps the snails are helping with the hatching and the fry by introducing beneficial bacteria into the hatching and rearing container. I certainly don't have the means to test this, but I think sometimes we put too much emphasis on having a "clean" environment for eggs and fry.

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 14 Dec 2016, 09:27

To @MChambers
I will agree with you a dirty container to raise fries is best. It is like if they could eat lots of tiny things bringing much more complete, diverse, and reach diet compare to anything we could give them.

To @bekateen
Getting a negative result is not a bad thing when we can interpret it and go forward from it.
I personally got very few negative results. My second test on Ancistrus went just as wrong as it could get. Few things came to my mind that could have cause that. The incubation cups are stored in between an oven and a sink, so food splash or soap splash during a dish cleaning could have been a cause. During that failed trial, I used a mix of planorb and Gammarus. On the third test with ancistrus, I tested separately planorb and gammarus and in both case eggs hatched normally. The eggs with gammarus hatched earlier than with planorbus, but i already noticed that without recording it, cory eggs with gammarus tend to hatch earlier than with planorbus. Still a negative synergistic issue to test, maybe on the next spawn.
During another hatching failure: I notice lots of non fertile eggs and that was one tme, I put hundreds of eggs in the same little cup. I do not know this time what went wrong (oxygen withdrawal) but it did not happen again since I put less eggs in each cup. A third time: I found the cup water completely messed-up with a dead snail in it. I suppose this time the snail died and its dead body did contaminate the water. The fourth time is recorded in previous pages when I tested some kind of pond snail. So in each case of failure it was more about a technical error or human mistake... Beside this, there is always a cup successfully running with some eggs in it, some time just a few as for Cory panda some time much more when albino aeneus or cory venezuelanus give me a spawn.

In the case you report, it is rather strange as this is not a corydoras species issue since you were successful with ramshorn snail and your Scleromystax barbatus. So why this negative result?
Another species of snail? Bad cup (with soap trace)? No water change? Too many eggs or too many non fertile eggs? Something that could have drain off oxygen? The hungry planorb snail, if they are of the same species I use, I do not believe it. First I never feed my planorbs and never change them, so the ones in the cup must be starving a lot. Second I tested few eggs with a full load of snails and the eggs hatch normally.
The best will be if that person could come here on planetcatfish and post some picture on how he did it. If it was not a single shoot experiment and if he really want to test seriously the usefulness of snails to protect eggs, he may report here and we could help him getting better at his next trial.

Cheers,
Francois

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 14 Dec 2016, 20:12

francoisMtl wrote:Getting a negative result is not a bad thing when we can interpret it and go forward from it...

In the case you report, it is rather strange as this is not a corydoras species issue since you were successful with ramshorn snail and your Scleromystax barbatus. So why this negative result?
Another species of snail? Bad cup (with soap trace)? No water change? Too many eggs or too many non fertile eggs? Something that could have drain off oxygen? The hungry planorb snail, if they are of the same species I use, I do not believe it. First I never feed my planorbs and never change them, so the ones in the cup must be starving a lot. Second I tested few eggs with a full load of snails and the eggs hatch normally.
The best will be if that person could come here on planetcatfish and post some picture on how he did it. If it was not a single shoot experiment and if he really want to test seriously the usefulness of snails to protect eggs, he may report here and we could help him getting better at his next trial.

Hi Francois,

Yes I agree a negative result is not bad if we can interpret it. I do not know the details of the setup for this report, I have seen only the photos. And as far as I can see, the snails look like my ramshorn snails, and the eggs are getting eaten. It is not a water contamination accident or other human-error as far as I can see from the photos and from the recounted story.

Sorry I do not have more details, but it may indicate that not every method (in this case - using ramshorn snails) is foolproof. Of course, there is also the possibility of unique circumstances and individual variation between organisms. I imagine that the population of snails in this person's tanks are related to each other, since I know in my tanks one or a few snails come in on a plant or other object, then breed and potentially spread to other tanks. And some individuals can have food preferences different than others - in my tanks, I have a Panaqolus that feeds on live black worms at the aquarium water surface. My other plecos also eat black worms, but none of the others are so bold as to swim to the water surface to steal worms out of the floating worm dispenser/feeder.

Cheers, Eric

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 20 Dec 2016, 08:19

Here are some pictures of my last test on Ancistrus eggs. My first test with planorbus went just fine but the second batch of eggs was lost. In the second test, I mixed the Ancistrus eggs with planorbus and gammarus. So on the third test, I tested if the gammarus could be bad for ancistrus eggs.
Early December I pushed the male off his tube and took the eggs. I separated 15 eggs with 7 gammarus and the ramaining with planorbus.
Here is a picture on Dec 05

: AncisSnGa551.JPG (112.44 KiB) Viewed 8214 times

You can see one planorbe on eggs and some gammarus also on eggs.

On Dec 09, first fry hatched in the cup with gammarus:

On Dec 11, all fryes from gammarus cup are out and moving and only the first one are coming out in planorbus cup.
Gammarus cup

Planorbus cup

On Dec 12 most eggs were out and moved to a 5 gallons with algea

Now just for the fun of it a picture of some fries all of which eggs were incubated with planorbus. They come from different spawns at different days. They are fries from C.venezuelanus, C.aeneus albino, few from C.panda (the one with full black mask on the eyes), and I am not sure if there was a few from C.metae or if they were in the second container... $:-\$
After hatching the fries are moved in such a container with lots of snail (always the same kind/species of planorbus) and some gammarus, they have an air line bubbling gently. I feed them at least twice a day with full food, usually microworm on the morning, dry powder one hour after, same menu on late afternoon/evening. once in a while, they will have hard boiled yolk chicken egg few hours before the evening water change (100%). This way they all have access to food and they have clean water each evening. When I feed boiled chicken eggs, they have two to three water changes to make sure it will be 100% renewal.
Here is the picture in the same size conatiner (6"/15cm diameter) with the fries only:

Cheers,
Francois

francoisMtl · Post by **francoisMtl** » 24 Jan 2017, 18:23

Hi,
No new species to add on my side. I hope to have some spawn from some new species that have not yet done anything here, beside eating like piglet. On the other hand, the species that have started to spawn, keep on doing so. They are mainly Corydoras venezuelanus, Corydoras aeneus albinos (those two first are producing quite a lot), Corydoras panda, Corydoras schultzei black (these two are producing regularly), Corydoras sp CW010, Corydoras aeneus (regular one, a young generation born here who just start to produce eggs). My metae gave two/three spawn but since them I could not get them back at work...
All these fries will be grown to one inch before trading them with new species or fish food or may go to some fish club auction. Even if it looks a lot of fishes, I do not want to sell them to keep this as hobby and not become a business! I usually keep eggs in species specific cup for hatching (always in presence of planorbus snails) and then pull them in container for one to four weeks to start them up before tranfer to tank for further growth.
Here are two new pictures of fries during a transfer between two growing tanks.

Now the task is moving things specially fish arround to keep descent space for the adults to spawn and also for fries to grow... $:-\$ It is becoming harder and harder.

Will have to push the wall soon

Cheers,
Francois

YouTube · Post by **bekateen** » 24 Jan 2017, 22:22

Very nice Francois. Keep it up!

Live tips to save cory eggs

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