Is this a snub nose?

[Narwhal72]

Thanks Janne.

[pleconut]

TTA questioned whether it could be caused by fabricated caves, has anyone seen cases where eggs were removed and raised artificially, it may rule out the tank or cave theory, though I'm sure it will take a lot more research until the actual cause of this is discovered.

[Janne]

I hatched eggs artificially and got snub nosed too, I produced many thousands of pleco's and still do and I have never seen any snub nose at larvae stage, for me the deformation have always appeared under the last days before or right afetr the fry consumed the yolk sac.

Janne

[MarlonnekeW]

Does anyone know if the snub nose has any effect on the wellbeing of the animal? Does it bother them when they are for example feeding and does it effect their lifespan?

[Narwhal72]

I don't think it bothers them when fed on artificial diets. It may hinder their ability to capture prey or feed in the wild. But in an aquarium it's not an issue. All of the ones I ever had grew at normal rates as the others who were not snubbies.

[Jools]

Just to make sure @Jools

Lip brooder is a term I have not heard. Is this what might also be referred to as a mouth brooder? If so is it not possible as the eggs develop inside the mouth that one or two might get mashed against something hard inside the mouth? The only mouth brooder I have ever had were P. nicholsi, a riverine African cichlid and I never saw any snubbers. But then it is not a catfish.

No, a lipbrooder is not the same as a mouthbrooder. In the former, an egg clutch is carried around on the loricariinae's lower lip until they hatch when they become freeranging. In a mouthbrooder, the eggs are kept in the mouth and the fry hatch in there.

Jools

[TwoTankAmin]

@janne
TY for your information. What your reported re snubbers in the wild is something of which I was not aware having never seen it stated anywhere until now. Once again this site and its members have taught me something new and interesting.

My experience with snub nosed plecos is limited to the few species I have kept which spawned. This has mostly been Hypancistrus. I have not seen snubbing in any of them that were born in my tanks except for a few zebras. I have seen batches of fry with other deformities, For example I had a spawn from H. contradens that all had a single deformed pectoral. It only happened once.

One of the 173b I got years ago was also the subject of discussion as to whether it was a snubber. And this brings me to another question. Over the years I have seen a few snub nosed zebras. I have nor seen it in other species, so I am not sure the following would apply to all the various species that do exhibit this deformity. Snub nosing is variable in terms of the degree of severity. Some fish have such a slight case that it is almost hard to distinguish while others have such an extreme case as to make one wonder how they can survive. And then there is everything in between.

This makes me wonder more about the potential cause or causes. No only is there the question of what causes snubbing, but also, what determines the severity of any individual case?

@jools
ty for your reply. It gives new meaning to the word lipstick

[pleconut]

In terms of lipbrooding, I think I've read somewhere that species such as Farlowellas use the protrusions on thier noses to gather and keep all the fry in one place, I might be wrong here though. If it is I should think lipbrooding then, might be a more advanced version of this

[TwoTankAmin]

Re Farlowellas this is my only experience. They do not become wigglers but develop inside their eggshell. When they hatch out they were free swimming. I saw no attempt by the dad to care for them once they hatched. To prevent all the fry from rapidly becoming lunch in that community tank, I had to pull the eggs right before they started to "hatch."

[pleconut]

Thanks for confirming, I wasn't sure they did this, just thought i read it somewhere. But the source may have been incorrect, or I was.

[Janne]

This makes me wonder more about the potential cause or causes. No only is there the question of what causes snubbing, but also, what determines the severity of any individual case?

Different levels of disturbed cell growth in early stage, I believe.

Janne

[TwoTankAmin]

A while back in this thread I posted the following:

Postby TwoTankAmin » Sat Feb 06, 2016 9:38 am

My experience with snub nosed plecos is limited to the few species I have kept which spawned. This has mostly been Hypancistrus. I have not seen snubbing in any of them that were born in my tanks except for a few zebras.

This is not longer the case. I was shipping out some 4th generation (F3 it F numbers go that high?) L236 today and realized I was about to send one that was a moderately snub nosed fish. Overall I think I have raised about 60 fry in all and this is the only snubber I have gotten.