L397 with skin lesion, below eye. But my question: is melafix safe to use in plecos.

[pleconut]

Hi folks, I noticed on monday a young (6 cms in size) L397 of mine had a small lesion, just before the pectoral fin base, but under the eye, at the corner of its mouth, at the time it seemed to be superficial, more so on the surface of the skin, all the same I have found these to be quite resilient, still I took a mental note to keep a close eye on it. Having spotted the pleco a while ago, the lesion has now slightly increased in size, now to about 3-4mm in diameter but now with a tiny red mark in the centre. No sign of a fungal problem. Because of the close proximity to the eye, I am no longer happy to leave it down to the resilient nature of these fish, without at least taking some action. I think the injury may have occurred while it was eating sweet potato weighed down with a non toxic plant weight, I've since looked at other, safer ways of weighing the veggies down. No meds have been used. I can start melafix straight away, and if necessary, obtain something else tomorrow. I live in the UK, for info in terms of availability of meds. But i have a concern about melafix and its use in plecos. As I've read a few horror stories about it online in its use and plecos. Obviously I know of its effects of potentially causing an oily film upon the waters surface and the necessity to provide very good aeration. I will attempt to get a pic of the pleco in question. Apart from the lesion its very active and eating. No behavioural changes in it. Doesn't appear to be otherwise unwell.

Params are:
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 10
Ph 7.4
GH 7-14
KH 1
Temp. 81
Params are as i aim to maintain them.

Water changes 10% daily plus waste syphoned out.

Tank is 220 litres capacity.
Course sand substrate.
Overfiltered.
Caves and wood.
Only other inhabitants otos. other L397s No recent additions.
Foods: veggies JBL pleco chips. Repashy. New era pleco pellets. New era rift lake green. Fed alternately.

Recent change is removal of the fish, a good clean up and a re-doing of the tank layout. There has been a break in the daily 10% and syphon+ water change routine for four days as was wanting them to resettle and adjust to the changes, they seem generally to have done this. The tank still is clean, however in light of this development, I will recommence this routine first thing in the morning with a substrate clean to increase chances of this L397 healing

[pleconut]

Hers a pic i rotated the picture. It was under the slate upside down from this angle the injury looks worse than I actually first thought it was. Has been a significant deterioration. Do i need more than melafix to treat it?

[pleconut]

Does anyone know that melafix is definitely safe to use, i have it here at home to start treatment tonight.

[catfishchaos]

Does anyone know that melafix is definitely safe to use, i have it here at home to start treatment tonight.

I'm pretty sure with any catfish you do half the recommended dose (because they have no scales) but it should say that on the bottle or the website, don't quote me for it though.

[pleconut]

Thanks for the reply, I ran a forum search using +safe +melafix and a different variety of combinations of search terms. Of course it has been used with various plecos, and sometimes with success. I only found one such horror story in the search where multiple plecos were lost after its use. But in reality, we're dealing with fish health here, and such stories may not directly be caused by melafix use, but the actual illness.I did find one post where barbie, who knows her stuff re medicating plecos, had suggested it's use for an injury to a hypancistrus. I also spoke to the guy that I got them from, he said to monitor it, suggested possibly a battle wound, or heater burn. But to let him know immediately, if it gets worse, I've since sent him the above pic, and waiting for a response but now it's very late night here. This L397, in light of the above pic,and location of the injury, i think possibly needs a bit more than melafix, in my personal opinion. Suggestions?

[pleconut]

Can anyone give me an indication on an appropriate medication for this pleco as i don't have much time left today to go and obtain it.

[pleconut]

This is the advice ive been given so far.
To remove the pleco each day and dab some waterlife sterazin on the lesion until an improvement is seen. Waterlife sterazin contains the following. Piperazine and formaldehyde. It is an anti-parasitic drug but i have been told this works in this specific application.

The breeder i got these from has seen the picture above, has suggested i maintain clean conditions, but if there's a change in any way in the fishes condition at all to inform him ASAP and he will advise accordingly.

In this case, seeing as there's no other option of which i know, I'm going to go with the last option, rather than directly apply to the fish, or use any medication, that i dont know for sure is appropriate in this application. Not only that, catching the fish to do this is more likely to do more harm than good.

However. I would still really appreciate if anyone can advise if there a more appropriate plan of action.

[bekateen]

Hi Teresa,

Sorry to hear about this fish. I wish I could help, but medication is not something I have much experience with.

Hopefully someone with experience will respond soon.

Good luck, Eric

[pleconut]

So do I.

[PseudaSmart]

Sorry to chime in late but I don't always have time to check
PC.

Pimafix and melafix are both safe for plecos when one understands how it works and how to treat wounds. I have used both for all my expensive and rare fish since 2008 in tanks up 300 gallons.

First, both of these additives are not 'quick fixes' like everyone wants. They are gentle but persistent. As with all medications and such pull all carbon and turn off uv sterilizers because they will breakdown many compounds.

2nd a water change before adding anything is important to lower the level of pathogen in the water making it easier to fight.

3rd clean the wound! When you get a cut do you just slap on bandage and maybe someone ointment? This is where most people lose their fish and blame the treatment. All that gross stuff protects the actual site of where it is attached to the skin. If you don't remove it chances are less that your fish will survive because the treatment won't get to the source.

4th direct topical application vs bath treatment. Call this gentle vs harsh. Stuff like formalin is very harsh, it is used to preserve museum specimens at higher doses. Do you want your fish to have that go through its gills!

I think you can see my recommendation, clean the wound, apply a topical and place in tank with a gentle treatment. Sometimes you have to clean daily.

I will try to dig up a photo of a wound that went down the muscle and veins covered in fungus. I only cleaned and used pimafix, turned out fine.

Regards,
Jim

[pleconut]

Hi, thank you for your advice, I've not been able to spot the pleco yet today as it normally is out where I can see it in the evening, I did get a chance to assess it yesterday, while the injury has not become bigger or deeper, or any closer to the eye this is my main concern, however the part that was protruding seems to be coming away, I'm not sure that this is a good sign, that healing can begin, or that something needs to be done now. I was extremely dubious about using a formaldehyde based drug

[PseudaSmart]

Waiting is usually the best action. If they don't look distressed then there is no need to rush.
BTW I forgot to mention, cleaning a damaged area can be as simple as using a paper towel or a q-tip (a small wood rod with cotton on the end. You have more interesting names over there) to get down to the skin.

Jim

[pleconut]

Thanks, the fish hasn't appeared distressed in any way still behaving as it does normally, later this evening when it comes out, usually to eat, I can assess the wound again, and attempt to to catch it and clean it, would adding some melafix to the tank also help.

[pleconut]

I've had a good chance to check up on the fish this evening.
No change whatsoever in the appearance of the wound as in increase in size, depth etc the only change is that it's now smoothed over. It seems that the protruding part has come away but definitely has not caused it to become any deeper. Catching it is another matter, I will attempt to again first thing, if I see it in a cave by lifting the cave out. I've added a less than half dose of melafix and upped the aeration as much as possible. Is this change ie the smoothing over a sign of improvement.

[PseudaSmart]

A photo would help. A half dose probably won't do much as they have already figured in a margin in of safety for the recommended dosage.

The half strength 'rule' was created back when ick treatments had not been made specifically for scale-less fish. Then like a wafer topping it was spread over to all treatments, sometimes without merit.

Jim

[pleconut]

Thanks again, I will try to get another picture of the fish.

[pleconut]

I've managed to get the best picture i can. Not as close up as before but in higher light levels. Wound is looking red but lighting levels were lower in the first picture. As it was not long ago i put in the melafix, I've added some more to make it up to its correct dosage.

[pleconut]

I've managed to get the best picture i can. Not as close up as or as focused as before, picture has been cropped and enlarged, also in higher light levels. Wound is looking red but lighting levels were lower in the first picture. As it was not long ago i put in the melafix, I've added some more to make it up to its correct dosage.

[pleconut]

The young L397 hasn't improved, but hasn't worsened either, no changes to the appearance of the wound, its still active and eating, and doesn't appear to be in discomfort or distress, but the wound doesn't seem to be healing up at all, I'm now considering putting it in a small, bare bottom tank on its own, with a cave and a piece of wood it likes to hide in that I can rinse each day. In the main tank, there's all the other L397s, food going in, waste coming out, lots of wood, caves and course sand, and even with my best cleaning efforts, the smaller barer tank stands a much better chance of being kept much more clean.
This is my only option, apart from leaving the fish in the main tank, to remove the mature internal filter, then add in another one, i also have a very mature external filter already in place. Use water from the main tank provide the L397 with the piece of wood (rinsed) from the tank it likes to hide in, and a cave rinsed in boiling water then use water from the main tank to fill the small tank. I dont have a mature small tank i can just transfer it to, is this a suitable solution to give it the best chances of a recovery? Any advice at all is appreciated, my main concern is this L397 seems to interact with the others quite a lot, my concern is that isolating it from them may cause stress. I've also spoken to the guy i got these from, now waiting for a response. Is this a viable option?

[pleconut]

I've had a chance to speak to the guy that bred these fish, he's advised to set up a hospital tank for this L397 youngster, he advised me though, not to make it completely bare, except only wood and a cave, but to take some substrate from the main tank, the internal filter, i also added in another to the main tank, I've attempted to make it as close as possible to the main tank. I've also added in a coulple of indian almond leaves, hopefully these will have an antibacterial effect. Any suggestions of anything else that may help, will be welcomed.

[bekateen]

The idea of having a little sandy substrate, even if only a thin layer that might not be able to cover the entire bottom if the fish excavates or the water currents cause drift, has always appealed to me. The additional beneficial bacteria in the sand, IMHO, would make the tank better at biological cleaning and give it a more stable water quality than would a bare bottomed tank, which I would imagine would be subject to more fluctuations in water quality. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but the logic makes sense to me.

Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

Thanks Eric., i have the L397 in the hospital tank now, its a bit unsettled, but hope that it will settle and heal up quickly, now I'm able to keep the tank cleaner. Fingers crossed.

[pleconut]

The young L397 pleco is still holding out in the hospital tank, but to be honest its not looking very good. Going by it's condition I'm surprised its still alive, I don't think I can save it now, and in all truth though it's not a nice thing to say I'd go as far to that it would be wrong to prolong the suffering, unless I can find something quickly to treat it with, or a plan of action, that will quickly improve things. Last week the wound started to develop a fungal infection. On advice from the guy that breeds these that i got these fish from, i started a treatment course of protozin, Ive also been gently cleaning the wound every other day, but not everday to cause distress to the fish, or else it would be every day. The condition of the fish now is that the fungal problem seems to have been resolved, but the wound is much bigger around the lower part of the eye, but most concerning now is that the gills are affected with a large gap and then under and around one corner of the mouth, obviously this is affecting the ability to eat, but i was surprised to find the small pellets i put in last night have been eaten. There is obviously something underlying. I've been doing large water changes and cleaning every day, params are as they should be but i can give an exact rundown if needed. There's also some indian almond leaves in the tank, any tips on treatments would be appreciated. Just a reminder I live in the UK.

[PseudaSmart]

Teresa,
The fact it's eating and so many days have past are positive signs. Don't give up just yet. Even if all fungus is not gone try not cleaning for a few days. New skin may be trying to form and the cleaning will interrupt the process. Do you have anything that acts as a slime coat? It will help the wound to heal. For me pimifix worked well every day. Adding 1tsp of non-iodinized salt per 10 gals once will help as well. I know people have issue with plecos and salt but after 'making' my own tank water from RO for so many years a know a few things.

How many days have you been been using Protozin? If more than 4 consider stopping and keep with WCs. Some treatments are also irritating. Before I forget again, fungus growth depends on light. Less light less growth but fish like some light to keep their rhythm.

Improving the slime coat is the most important thing to help it heal at this point. I found my photo now I need to reduce it.
Jim

[PseudaSmart]

Here is the pic of the pleco that I treated with pimifix in a 300 gal tank. Not the preferred way but I didn't have a spare tank for a 10" fish

As you can see rather nasty all the way down to the veins.

[pleconut]

Hi Jim, thanks for the advice, I've used protozin for four days, the fungal infection appears completely cleared up now, but the fish is left in the condition as i described above, because the fungal infection has now cleared I'm assuming that a fungal problem set in causing this damage and with water changes and keeping very clean conditions it will possibly heal, it just looks very bad at the moment, but because the fish is still fighting and is eating, although it cannot eat veggies most likely because of the discomfort, its breathing may possibly be affected now, but I'm giving it as much areration i can, it obviously has some fight left in it. I know things like the pimafix may hold further fungal problems at bay, the non iodizined salt, will the standard aquarium medicinal salt be ok or is there somewhere i can usually find it. I'm not wanting to do anything such as adding in any more strong medications, I'd rather have an approach of maintaining very good conditions. That's possibly the best thing i can do for the fish at this time . I've been keeping the lights off except when to check on it.

[pleconut]

The L397 is still fighting well and eating, and does show a very slight improvement in the area of the wound, today I've managed to get some non-iodinised salt and am using it as instructed above, I've also obtained some API stress zyme. But will ensure that I obtain some pimafix tomorrow. Can the stress zyme non-iodinised salt and pimafix be used together?

[PseudaSmart]

Yes. All three can be used together. My apologies on the salt. Aquarium salt would be fine also. Most people over my way find buying 'generic' is cheaper. Just watch out for excessive foaming when adding both the pimifix and the stress zyme. That's the only potential problem I see.

Jim

[pleconut]

Thanks Jim, I will keep up high levels of aeration /filtration re the foaming, and keep a close eye on it. And also thanks again for all the advice so you've given so far, as long as the L397 keeps fighting, i will do my best for it.

Teresa.

[pleconut]

The young L397 is still fighting, and still eating. I've been applying the aquarium salt, stress zyme and pimafix, aeration levels are being kept very high. I've been doing 10-15 % water changes in the morning and evening and gravel clean. Do i replenish the aquarium salt etc, during these water changes according to the amount that I'm changing? I'm feeding vitalis (formally new era) rift lake green as what the guy feeds I bought the fish from. A side note I've also purchased some screwcumbers. It may have not been eating veg weighed down with a plant weight that caused the problem, but I'm now overly wary of any of the others injuring themselves. I've been working on the main tank also with small water changes and doubling the filtration alongside the already mature filter, in case the problem originated from the main tank.