Moving on

[catfishchaos]

A careless mistake had its consequence, I lost my breeding group of

Peckoltia compta

whom I had been raising for the last two years. Staring at the tank with so little life in it as to what it once was feels like a painful torment, a constant reminder of my mistake. Now I find the only way to relieve this melancholy is to find a new project, get excited, tear down the tank and build it back from the ground up and flood with another project, another species and ultimately a new chapter. I’m losing sleep whilst I think of different sp that fit my criteria and are also available to me. Once I know what species will go into the tank I can begin my planning stages of the tank, how to obtain parameters, aqua-scape, plant and ultimately spawn. Tank is a 55 gallon and anything after that is open to modification.

Whats currently available:

Ancistrus dolichopterus

Hemiancistrus sp(l128)

Ancistrus claro

Parancistrus sp(lda046)

Panaqolus sp(l453)

Baryancistrus beggini

What I have seen before (possibilities)

Peckoltia lineola

Hypancistrus sp(l201)

Baryancistrus demantoides

Honestly Oliver could probably get me anything I wanted if the price was right butI’m open to suggestions for a breeding project a relatively easy to breed species thats been overlooked or really needs to be worked with. I would rather stick to fish that are around the 60-80$ ball park. So far I really am leaning towards the

Hemiancistrus sp(l128)

but they look like they would “advanced" as far as breeding goes. The other top contender would be

Ancistrus dolichopterus

.

Regards
James

[yayfish24]

My vote goes to ancistrus claro. I haven't seen many of them down here in the US.

[bekateen]

Four of these stand out to me: Baryancistrus beggini, Hypancistrus sp(l201), Peckoltia lineola and Ancistrus claro. How much are the Peckoltia lineola in your area when they were available?

Cheers, Eric

[Narwhal72]

I would vote for the Ancistrus claro myself too.

I got a group of 6 of them from Jeff Michels (Aquatic Clarity) a few months ago and they are pretty active so I get to see them scooting around the tank. Unlike my Ancistrus dolichopterus who I only get to see their tails or when I shine a light under the rocks and wood.

Andy

[catfishchaos]

Interesting points on the

Ancistrus claro

, they have been one of the fish I've been looking into.

I don't remember the exact price but I remember thinking it was reasonable (45-70), I feel like your opinion is a little biased Eric ;)

I should mention I am begging to crave larger species... I'm liking the meduim omnivores the most at the moment (

Leporacanthicus joselimai

,

Baryancistrus demantoides

,

Hemiancistrus sp(l128)

and

Leporacanthicus heterodon

) any others along those lines?

[pleconut]

Personally but only as it's a project at the back of my mind for some point I'd go for the green phantoms though it's not the first on your list. In any case in any pleco breeding project for me means i would build it upon the plecos as a baseline and work around with what would else would be right for them- green phantoms are quite active usually out and about.

[catfishchaos]

Thanks Teresa, I remember being a little ubsessed with the phantoms (both green and blue) when I was young and still think they are awesome. I do agree with your methods of making a tank revolve soley around the fish you intend to spawn, once I know the species I can spend anywhere from 2 weeks-1-1/2 years plotting, sketching, preparing and researching what I want the tank to look like.

[pleconut]

I'm going pleco 'window shopping' -can't bring any home -tomorrow so i may come up with up something completely different it's for a 4ft though. Interesting to see what I come up with but there's nothing like a new project.

[catfishchaos]

I'm going pleco 'window shopping' -can't bring any home -tomorrow so i may come up with up something completely different it's for a 4ft though. Interesting to see what I come up with but there's nothing like a new project.

Idk if i would have it in me to go window shopping for plecos, I feel like being branded would hurt less!

+1 on the new project feeling though, what a rush! I would have to say though I feel like watching them grow and learning their personalities as individuals is one my favorite parts. I get just as excited about new fish as the ones I see everyday in my tanks (different kinds of excitement mind you but around the same level).

[pleconut]

Brand new/or had for a while- its when you see something that puts a giant grin on your face like when captain caveman an L397 i nicknamed the day I brought him - he was the first one to establish his cave then today i discovered him fanning not sure what outcome will be but im as exited about what I will find in that LFS as i am about what might be in that cave.

[bekateen]

I don't remember the exact price but I remember thinking it was reasonable (45-70), I feel like your opinion is a little biased Eric ;)

My goodness, why in the world would you ever say that?

One planning note which hasn't been mentioned yet- some plecos don't need or benefit from dither fish. I was told about my clown plecos that dither fish are just something else to disturbed them when they are trying to spawn. Mine didn't spawn until I took everything else out (corys, apistos, tetras).

Have fun choosing!

[pleconut]

True about the dithers i had some in with the L397s i dont have any with them now and to tell the truth i think they got completely p..... off with them! But I wouldn't rule them out for less sensitive plecos.

[Jobro]

Out of those I'd pick the green phantoms I guess.

If you're going for a Baryancistrus breeding challenge anyway, why not a golden nugget colony?

[bekateen]

If you're going for a Baryancistrus breeding challenge anyway, why not a golden nugget colony?

How cruel a sense of humor. He's going for something "relatively easy." Compared to your suggestion, he might as well try to solve something easy, like why do men and women have trouble understanding members of the opposite sex.

[Narwhal72]

Keep in mind that it's a 55 gallon tank. I am assuming a standard 48" x 13" footprint?

I like the Green phantoms too but that seems like a pretty narrow tank for them.

I do remember an article in Amazonas about breeding them and I think they were in a 40 breeder. So volume is not a concern but for a fish that gets about 6" SL you are going to want a cave that is at least 8-10" deep. That leaves precious little space in front of the cave for the fish to move around in.

Andy

[Narwhal72]

I have a gold nugget colony (3) that I am growing out to breed. In the 5 years since I got them they have grown about 2". In another 10 years they may be big enough to breed!

LOL!

[Jobro]

How cruel a sense of humor. He's going for something "relatively easy." Compared to your suggestion, he might as well try to solve something easy, like why do men and women have trouble understanding members of the opposite sex.

xD easy task, I keep telling my girlfriend how I just can't understand her and she just won't get it.

I guess only the claros and maybe the L201/P.Lineola might be easy breeders out of those.
If I'd get my hands on some really beautiful high contrast claros, I might give them a shot, but most of them look just like a "better" common BN. And trying to sell that offspring won't be much fun I guess. So unless you can get some really good ones, I'd certainly skip on those.

[catfishchaos]

Keep in mind that it's a 55 gallon tank. I am assuming a standard 48" x 13" footprint?

I like the Green phantoms too but that seems like a pretty narrow tank for them.

I do remember an article in Amazonas about breeding them and I think they were in a 40 breeder. So volume is not a concern but for a fish that gets about 6" SL you are going to want a cave that is at least 8-10" deep. That leaves precious little space in front of the cave for the fish to move around in.

Andy

well my line of thinking was to build a large structure filled with caves facing the length of the tank (so the caves will be facing inwards along the 48 length of the tank and fill the middle with rocks, wood and plants). would this not be effective?

[pleconut]

With the caves facing the length of the tank it would limit the amount of larger plecos you could have to around 4. I guess that is with the required space between the caves accounted for. But smaller caves at the sides and back and maybe a two storey set up would enable for more than 4 larger plecos.

I just returned from my pleco shopping trip -with no plecos (makes a change!) I came across a group of 6cm L397s (new blood) as i already have a set-up for them it means i don't need to recreate a separate tank for some other plecos. It's nearly Christmas time and next week i will be unwrapping a bag containing 2 of them.

[bekateen]

I came across a group of 6cm L397s (new blood) as i already have a set-up for them it means i don't need to recreate a separate tank for some other plecos. It's nearly Christmas time and next week i will be unwrapping a bag containing 2 of them.

Hi Teresa,
A word of caution is in order - make sure that the source of your new source is different from the source of the person who sold you your first L397. I tried to increase the genetic diversity of a group of my fish a few years ago by purchasing the same species from different LFS in different towns, and then I found out that both LFS were getting their fish from the same supplier. So in the end my fish were still all related to each other.

But assuming they are different, congratulations and Merry Christmas.
Cheers, Eric

[pleconut]

I did check up on the source was a different breeder to mine and a fair distance away from the area mine were the offspring of 3 year old wild caughts. Don't know about the parentage of these.

[Narwhal72]

well my line of thinking was to build a large structure filled with caves facing the length of the tank (so the caves will be facing inwards along the 48 length of the tank and fill the middle with rocks, wood and plants). would this not be effective?

Sounds like a good idea to solve the issue of providing space in front of the caves for them to maneuver in.

But then observing the plecos becomes very difficult unless you are able to view into the caves from the ends of the aquarium.

From the front of the aquarium you are just going to have a nice underwater pile of rocks and terracotta.

Andy

[catfishchaos]

After looking at more youtube videos than any human should and staring at Cat-elog images and reading a few amazonas articles it is now a whiskered Mexican stand off between

Hemiancistrus sp(l128)

,

Baryancistrus demantoides

or

Hemiancistrus subviridis

.

Thoughts?

[Jobro]

I think chances of breeding will be higher on the Hemiancistrus spp.

Can't find a confirmed report for B. demantoides.

[pleconut]

Hi catfishchaos you've been talking about your tank layout should you go on to keep green phantoms. Here's a picture of my L397 set up its still in progress as my main priority was to move the fish out of a tank with a major snail problem. Apart from what I still need to do in there has been a slight design flaw

To the far right of the tank dopey me placed a cave albeit only temporarily so there was enough caves while i waited for their other caves to be free of any remaining snails at the right far end but almost parallel to the front glass. All the other caves are in full sight. But now I have a male fanning in the cave and i can't see what if anything is inside the cave. However the placement worked well as the female waited outside on a slate ledge to the left or under the wood above the cave. With the green phantoms when they breed you'd want to be able to get a good view into the caves. With your layout plan judging by the tank width would you have a good view into the caves.

[catfishchaos]

I was considering this (after I stated my original plan) and to me the word compromise came to mind. I am now thinking that the cave entrances will be at a 45 degree angle from the back of the tank to give them easy access to the caves and leave lots of room for aqua scaping (lot of rocks, very possible there will be no plants ) I'll have do an order from plecocaves.com and get much larger caves than what I have left over. One problem I for see is that my tap has a PH of 5 and all the species above need a PH of 6-7, any tips?

Also I know you guys gave me the depth of the caves (8-10 inches) but anybody know what diameter I should be aiming for? Both breeding reports I have seen for either Hemiancistrus sp has used round or rounded caves so I think I'll stick with that trend if I can. I'm currently thinking 4-5 caves on either side arranged as stated above with medium-large boulders scattered rather chaotically through out and a few large pieces of Malaysian drift wood. I would run a 15 gallon power head on one side and 55 gallon rate power head on the other and hopefully make some fun turbulence for them. Filtration will be the same 306 Canister filter rated for a 70 (THOROUGHLY CLEANED) but if that sounds insufficient for such large fish then I could upgrade to 406 (120 gallon rating I think...). Substrate will be some form of inert ADA sand, any reccomendations for colour (earth tones, bright white, darker browns and blacks)? Also wondering what stocking levels should look like and the ideal sex ratio... I was thinking a group of 4 5 or 6 and the sex ratio being 2m 2f, 2m 3f, 2-3m 3-4f.

Any pointers?

[pleconut]

In terms of raising the ph my only tip is not to add any chemical additives to raise ph. In the same way i wouldn't do to lower my ph of 8 as chemical use such as api ph up or down makes it too unstable to predict. I have over time naturally gradually lowered my water hardness and ph by use of wood needed for panaquolus anyway but now I have to find a way of preparing my tapwater to equal measures in the tank probably in another container. Otherwise any substantial water changes - often needed when breeding plecos ,direct from the tap will continually mess up parameters if you were to experiment long before the plecos were added on how you could achieve and maintain the correct water parameters over time. Someone else may have some tips on achieving this naturally. Caves I couldn't advise on. For your filters i would change media completely in the one you have and also would add another in and have one each end. Subsrate colour I'd go for natural tones. Sex ratio I'd go 2:2 but as yet ive not kept these to speak from experience. You mentioned not having plants in your set up the branches i have i will be attaching java fern and moss to disguise the roots not biotope correct but is a way of shielding from above lighting.

[catfishchaos]

Turns out the specimens are only 1.5 inches at the moment, does anybody know how long it takes for them to grow?

[pleconut]

By my estimated guess only growth rate is slow as my local LFS has had some Hemiancistrus Subvirdis at 3 inches for a long time and they've not grown much in the time they've been there. But then again, I don't know what they're being fed on.

[catfishchaos]

I work at a chain store and are plecos never grow... I'm sure its a combo of to small of a tank and being fed the cheapest foods available. I'll order the group of 4 and grow them out. Now that I know what species I want I'll make a new thread regarding there care specifically.

Thank you to everybody who contributed!