ID: Microsynodontis batesii or polli??

[bekateen]

I find it difficult to tell them apart.

As to telling them apart, even if the number of tail stripes varies on batesii, the stripes all tend to be rather thin. But what I see on all the photos of sp(1) is a single very wide bold stripe (or again, it might look like two big arcing spots, one on top of the other); the second stripe is so much thinner, and variable (it appears to be missing in some photos). That should help, along with the fork in the tail.

Might it be possible that they are wrongly identified on Scotcat also?

In this specific case, I think not, for the reasons I mentioned above. But honestly, I too am leary of websites that post "atypical" looking fish attributed to a particular species; there are even some photos here on PlanetCatfish that I wonder about (nothing personal, @Jools ). But I know that some animals show great variation in coloration within a single species, especially when they range over a wide geographic area. So I'll leave it up to the experts to settle that issue.

It would be so much easier if suppliers we able to be more precise about where the fish came from. If it really comes from Cameroon it should be batesii.

Agreed about the suppliers. But if batesii can range from Cameroon to Nigeria and Niger, it's possible that sp(1) can also range from Nigeria into Cameroon, I suppose (unless people know otherwise). So maybe the fish can be from Cameroon and still be sp(1).

[Birger]

Hi guys...you are right in saying the last fish above is

Microsynodontis sp(1)

You are right in using the caudal pattern to discern to species...the first thing I look at for a quick ID is the body shape, long and lean like

Microsynodontis polli

or

Microsynodontis batesii

...or stout body like

Microsynodontis sp(1)

....then I go to the pattern of the caudal...each species is quite individual. After that then you have to get into staring at them for awhile...but 90 % of the time the first two items work. I just recently ID'd for someone Microsynodontis lamberti this way...when I looked farther into the fish I was correct IMO.

Birger

[bekateen]

Thanks Birger. It also seems to me that polli has little or no striping towards the front of the body, and the stripes which are present are very thin and broken up along the length of the body. And its tail appears to have some light spotting, but no obvious striping pattern at all. Whereas both batesii and sp(1) have strong bold stripes all along the body and the tail patterns are pretty stable. Are those accurate stereotypes?
Cheers, Eric

[Birger]

Hehe polli...as a juvenile it can be spotted or striped..as it matures the females become a variety of shades , I have one that is almost white (from jools) the males often dark and very slim and long looking. The spotting and the striping fades with age but can still show. I have never seen a juvenile batesii but am assuming it is not much different then the adults.
Female polli

Female polli

Male polli

Birger

[bekateen]

Thanks again. While polli is much more variable than I thought, it is safe to say that none of the polli photos I'm seeing (yours or the ones I examined on the internet) resemble either batesii or sp(1) in the slightest.

[Birger]

Yes, quite correct!! Keep in mind too...there could be a few undescribed species yet...besides sp.1.


Birger

[bekateen]

As an alternative option for the OP (Andre), there's

Microsynodontis christyi

, which bears a resemblance to

Microsynodontis batesii

, even down to the thin vertical stripes on the tail.

Andre, if you should accidentally find christyi in a store, I don't think it would matter (unless you want to breed them and you've already bought some batesii from different stores) because it seems that christyi is from approximately the same location as batesii (the Mvile River in Cameroon). Thus if you're trying to establish a biotope with natural Cameroon inhabitants, christyi should be as acceptable as batesii, and it would look almost exactly the same. However, I don't know how often christyi shows up among imports.

Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

Hi @killi69,

There are batesii advertised for sale by Bluegrass Aquatics on their own website and on Aquabid. I realize this doesn't really help since the seller is in the USA, but I mention it because the picture they posted (see below) appears to be a juvenile; it doesn't specifically resemble the adult pattern of any of the fish we're discussing in this thread, but if the seller's ID is correct, then it gives you an idea of what a juvenile batesii might look like, should you find one. I suppose you can also ask the seller if there's anyway to get their batesii to or in the UK.


Cheers, Eric

[Birger]

Look up

Synodontis batesii

that is a juvenile in the picture yes...but a Synodontis . the caudal is forked not rounded or truncate...a good clue towards it being a synodontis, and it has a complete lateral line.

Microsynodontis christyi

would have a shorter stout body much like

Microsynodontis sp.1

, different then the long lean

Microsynodontis batesii

but the distribution info should be correct.


Birger

[bekateen]

Look up

Synodontis batesii

that is a juvenile in the picture yes...but a Synodontis . the caudal is forked not rounded or truncate...a good clue towards it being a synodontis, and it has a complete lateral line.

Thanks again Birger! You're right, and that forked tail is a dead give-away... Didn't we just get done saying that M. batesii has a rounded tail?!? Doh!
Well, Bluegrass Aquatics definitely has it listed as Microsynodontis, not Synodontis. Of course, it's pretty easy for sellers to make mistakes when it comes to IDs, but as usual, it's always prudent to exercise the "buyer beware" strategy and not take the sellers' IDs at face value.
Cheers, Eric

[killi69]

...the first thing I look at for a quick ID is the body shape, long and lean like

Microsynodontis polli

or

Microsynodontis batesii

...or stout body like

Microsynodontis sp(1)

....then I go to the pattern of the caudal...each species is quite individual. After that then you have to get into staring at them for awhile...but 90 % of the time the first two items work.

Many thanks Eric and Birger for your detailed responses and help with identification methods.

As an alternative option for the OP (Andre), there's

Microsynodontis christyi

, which bears a resemblance to

Microsynodontis batesii

, even down to the thin vertical stripes on the tail... if you're trying to establish a biotope with natural Cameroon inhabitants, christyi should be as acceptable as batesii, and it would look almost exactly the same.

I understand that these days imports from Cameroon are rare so coming across either M batesii or christy in the near future would not be likely. M christy would be certainly be a most welcome addition to my Cameroon tank. However, even if I would be fortunate enough to stumble across M christy, judging by the two pictures shown here

Microsynodontis christyi

I would probably not be able to recognise them even if I was looking at them . Using Birger's handy identification method above, I would think the first pic would probably be a sp1 and the second a polli! Luckily I will be able to come back here with more pics in the future. Fingers crossed.

Thanks again. Regards, Andre

[Birger]

Hehe, to me the caudal pattern is very different to sp.1

Birger