Should Peckoltia sp. Zwerg be listed here?

[krazyGeoff]

Hi,
A friend of mine has received some Peckoltia Zwerg in the USA.

He was trying to find them on PC but couldn't.

I did a Google search for Peckoltia Zwerg and found numerous reference to L080 Peckoltia Zwerg.

I couldn't necessarily find any scientific papers (not that I know what to look for), so I do not know if it is a scientific or common type name, but it may be a candidate for a data update?

Edit: changed title of post.

Thanks

Geoff

[bekateen]

My German is not very good, but isn't Zwerg simply German for dwarf?
When you searched the internet, did you find this site? http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showp ... 394/cat/32

[krazyGeoff]

My German is not very good, but isn't Zwerg simply German for dwarf?
When you searched the internet, did you find this site? http://www.l-welse.com/reviewpost/showp ... 394/cat/32

Thanks,
Yes it would appear that Zwerg = Dwarf

I am still unsure whether it should be considered as a common name then, the reason being if it is being sold as that then perhaps there should be a way to "find" it on PC?

Cheers

[krazyGeoff]

Hi,
I have just been advised that Peckoltia sp. "Dwarf" is listed in the Back to Nature Guide to L-Numbers as a separate fish, with no L Number like the other "sp." entries for Peckoltia here.

I wonder if it requires its own entry here?

Thanks

Geoff

[bekateen]

Yes, there's no L number on the L-welse.com page either.

[Acanthicus]

Morning,

P. sp. "Zwerg" (which really means dwarf) was never assigned a L-Number, and it's not the same as L 80.

It's very similar to L 38, also in size. The name "dwarf" was simply attached because the "species" stays very small, and it didn't have a number, not because it`s much smaller than other species.

At least over here it's not a common fish and in contrast to L 38 you rarely see it getting offered. It was exported from Belém thats all we know, and I guess it is not unlikely that it represents the same species as L 38 from Rio Tocantins or at least a very similar one. But since I have never kept the dwarfs, thats just an idea and might be going into the wrong direction.

[krazyGeoff]

Hi,
I am happy that Peckoltia sp. Zwerg is not another L number.
The question now becomes should Peckoltia sp. Zwerg be listed here?

And I am changing the title of the original post.
Cheers

[Shane]

As PC is primarily an English speaking site I am not sure that listing common names in numerous languages would make sense given the massive amount of data entry that would involve. The exception being the fish's common name by the locals which can be an aid for collecting in the field, making field identifications, or ordering from exporters.
In this case calling the fish Peckoltia sp 1 (or something similar) would make more sense to me than just using a German word for dwarf. There are other German examples such as rotpunkt that we do not use as common names on PC.
-Shane

[bekateen]

@Shane, I don't have any skin in this game, and I am not advocating for or against adding the "Zwerg" name as a common name to the CLOG for this fish, but I must confess I am a bit puzzled by the rationale for not including it.

Of all the non-English languages I've observed listed as common names at PlanetCatfish, German is the one I've encountered most (not to say it really is the most frequently displayed here, but just that my observation reflects which spp. of cats I tend to look at most). For example, my banjo cat is listed as "Zweifarbiger Bratpfannenwels," my albino cory is listed as "Panzerwels," and my clown pleco is listed as "Maccus-Panaqolus;" likewise, Hara jerdoni is listed as "Deltafluegel-Zwergwels." None of these fish are native to Germany, and German is not the native tongue of any the countries from which these fish come (although there are plenty of Germans in South America), so up till this time I've inferred that these German names originate either from the original scientists who discovered them being German, or because these fish are often imported to Germany or by Germans (even if to other countries, as in the case of the pleco in this thread being sent to the USA), or because of the historical connection between German ichthyologists and the L-numbering system.

It makes total sense to me that if the word Zwerg is being added somewhat randomly and generically to any small unknown pleco, then to include Zwerg as a listed name on a CLOG at PlanetCatfish is inappropriate. But if this specific fish is exclusively (or almost exclusively) called "Peckoltia sp. Zwerg" when it is imported, then would it make sense to include this German name in its CLOG, especially if it doesn't have any other scientific or common name?

Combining your recommendation with the Zwerg name, the cat could be listed as "Peckoltia sp. (1)" for its scientific name and "Peckoltia sp. Zwerg" for its common name (since the "sp. (1)" is not reused as a common name for the fish which have that moniker).

Thanks, Eric

[Jools]

It's very, very similar to L038. I'd be inclined to say they're the same...

As to the non-English common names. The odd one here and there are added because they're the names we see in the trade or are local common names useful or interesting to know. Some larger lists of names have also been imported from time to time (they are done in bulk, so there is not a huge amount of typing) and the main one was an OFI list of German names which was quite heavily vetted before being added.

Jools

[krazyGeoff]

I understand what everyone is saying and agree that randomly adding Zwerg to every dwarf sized fish is silly.
In this case the breeder in the USA has had the fish for 9 years.
He tried to identify them correctly and eventually they were identified by Yann as Peckoltia sp. Zwerg.
Now the breeder is trying to sell some of the offspring and it is creating confusion amongst his customers because they cannot find the fish on the English catfish authority repository (planet catfish).
This is the first time I personally have come across a fish that is not in PC. Normally, no matter what sexy name an importer or distributor gives a fish it can be broken down into a scientific name, an L number, or in the very few cases as mentioned above a regional "catch" name.
I do not know the frequency with which non described, non L number associated cat fish start arriving in the English speaking market, but if this occurs and an L number is not assigned then does it become a candidate for being added here?
Why is an L number not assigned could be a better question?

[Jools]

I'd be OK with adding the common name to the species entry for

L038

as I don't really see much difference?

Jools

[stuby]

I'd be OK with adding the common name to the species entry for

L038

as I don't really see much difference?

Jools

Hi Jools, I'm the breeder/seller of the Peckoltia "zwerg". There is a difference between L38 and Peckoltia "zwerg"..... L38 grow to around 4.7" SL, zwerg only grow to around 3" TL max so maybe 2.5" SL. To look at them they are very similar, the size difference is about the only way to tell them apart. HTH

Chuck

[Jools]

Hi Chuck,

Thanks for joining in - it's good to have that level of input - can you tell us more about where these fishes came from?

I should have been clearer when I said difference, what I meant was I can't see any difference that would indicate the two are different species (and thus would have separate species entries in the cat-elog). It would be good to see if there is any difference between the two size variants in terms of DNA as well - there are those on the forum that would be keen to sample them I think...

Jools

[stuby]

The guy I bought them from could only tell me Brazil unfortunately.

It would be very interesting to see what differences there is in their DNA and if there is someone here that can help I would be willing to do what I could to find out.

Chuck