L14 Died. Help with diagnosis please.

[Jay1]

As per the title. Sadly my L14 died this morning. I've only had it around four months. Up until two or three days ago it seemed fine. Always preferred algae wafers to meat, but both greens/meat were always on offer due to living with Discus. All water perams spot on, no problems with any other fish. Lots of oxygen too. No other territorial plecos/catfish present, just 3 small Ancistrus.

I've taken a photo to show what looks like internal bleeding so I'm guessing an internal disease/parasite? No other odd marks on the top of it's body, fins intact etc. Eyes not sunken. Any ideas appreciated?

[Barbie]

On the top of the forum is a post with a link of information that you can provide us with, to make our answers more apt to be of assistance. Most of their organs are in front of that vent, not behind, but it's hard to tell how much redness is in the fins from those pics, also.

[Jay1]

Apologies Barbie. I'll provide a full run down when I get home tonight.

[Jay1]

1. Water parameters
a) 29/30oC.
b) ph6.
c) GH 2°DH
d) KH 1°DH
e)Ammonia 0.1mg/l, Nitrate 2.5mg/l, Nitrite 0.1mg/l.
f) Water change frequency: 15% daily (pure HMA)

2. Tank set up
a) Size: 182ltrs
b) Substrate: fine sand, 1-2cm (Children's play sand)
c) Filtration: x2 Eheim Ecco Pro 300's, x2 Jumbo Aqua One sponges powered by Eheim 400.
d) Furnishings: Various size pleco caves, once large piece of bog wood.
e) Other tank mates: 9 3-4" Discus, 6 Sterbai, 4 small clown loach, 3 small bristlnoses', 30ish Cardinals.
f) How long has it been set-up: Since August 2014
g) When was the last new fish added: L14 was the last fish added around Sept/Oct 2014.
h) Foods used and frequency: Beefheart morning with algae wafer, Discus Granules late afternoon, beefheart and algae wafers before lights outs. Prawns and cucumber occasionally added as treats (normally after main lights go out). Algae wafers (JBL) were L14's favourite food.

3. Symptoms / Problem description: No obvious symptoms until 12 or so hours before death. The day before its death, L14 had moved from its usual hiding spot and was breathing very fast. The next morning it had moved to the front of the tank and could not/would not move. It was still alive evident by mouth/gill movement. However, half of its mouth looked paralysed. No obvious bleeding marks until I removed the fish and looked at its underside. L14 was clearly destressed with very little signs of life, so I euthanased it and have since put it in the freezer.

4. Action taken: Demise was quite fast and the fish was clearly not going to survive and in distress. I therefore took the decision to euthanase rather than prolong suffering.

5. Medications used: None.

Sorry for the initial lack of information. All other fish in the tank are healthy looking and eating very well.

[bekateen]

Hi Jay1,

Sorry for your loss. I'm not expert on fish disease, but whenever I hear about a fish going from healthy to dead in a matter of hours, the first causes that I think of are hypoxia and toxins. Even though your water parameters aren't extreme, is there any reason to consider that your water quality changed (esp. a parameter that you couldn't measure)? On the other hand, the redness in the photos (especially with the pattern distributed around the anus, on the skin and onto the fins (what about the mouth and gill areas?)) reminds me of a possible bacterial problem. But since your photos are of a dead fish, it's hard to know what the fish looked like when alive. Did you not see any red discoloration before it died?

Eric

[Jay1]

Hi Eric, thanks for your reply. The pictures were taken as soon as I removed it from the tank, so it was still alive, but only just.

The night before it died, I did notice it looked a little pale, but didn't think it too unusual as I've seen lots of plecs go pale if they're spooked or a bit stressed. It was also whilst the night light was on too, so the tank was very dull.

The only thing I can think of is a possible ph drop? I've been a bit complacent with note keeping and think it was the night before when I squeezed the Aqua One sponges out. My Ph is normally higher than what I took tonight (more towards 7), so it may have caused an ammonia spike whilst they caught up with the bio load? My water has always been soft, but the KH has also dropped by 2°DH, so I think I'll add a little oyster shell to help it buffer.

The mouth and gills looked blemish free btw.

[Raul-7]

How long ago did you setup this aquarium? There shouldn't be ammonia or nitrite in well-established aquarium unless something happened to kill of the bacteria. Did you dose any medications or change your display (ie. move rocks, plants, etc.)?

I see why; a lot of fish in a small tank and you reduced the bacteria by cleaning those sponges.

You should use Dr. Tim's One and Only when doing major changes like that to restore the bacteria or Seachem Prime.

[Jay1]

Hi Raul. As you said, I've caused a small cycle when cleaning the sponges hence the trace ammonium/nitrite. I add a few Evolution Aqua bio balls after a filter rinse, it obviously it still takes time to get back up to speed.

I think what's caused the death is possibly a very low pH. I had to do the initial test with a drip test and not my pH pen, and my digital pen showed the pH to be 4.8h! Despite this all the fish were fine, apart from the L14 obviously, which was harder to monitor due to its inclination to hide in the caves. So I can only balme myself for being lax with regular water testing. I've since added oyster shell to raise the kh and help stabilise the water. Its now back to 6.4/6.5.

A hard lesson learned in my case. Despite apparently healthy fish don't assume your perams are fine, carry out regular tests and make sure you give the fish that hide a good once over every week. No place for complacency from now on.