Please help me feel better about exercising judgment in a fish store

[bekateen]

Hi All,

This is probably an odd post. My boys and I took a tour of LFS in San Francisco today, as part of a pre-Christmas exploration searching for special fish we might buy.

We saw lots of neat cats: One store was selling the largest

Corydoras sterbai

I've ever seen, along with what the owner said were

Corydoras hastatus

and some

Aspidoras

. But what really got me was another store. They had a lot of captive-bred small (1/2"-3/4") green lazers (

Corydoras sp(cw009)

) and

Corydoras duplicareus

. I haven't wanted either of these spp. before, but when I saw them, I must admit that I was impressed with their colors. For both spp., each fish was only US $10 (but no discount for buying multiples), which I thought was fair, if not slightly high given the small size of the fish.

The problem was this: I could have bought a few of either of them today, but given their small sizes, I would have wanted to buy at least six or seven of each to ensure that I had a reasonable chance of getting at least two males and females reaching adulthood (the fish looked generally healthy, but I'm always leery of new fish). However, I knew that I didn't have enough open tank space at home to make such a commitment.

So in the end, we chose to not buy the fish, and to wait until we have more open tanks. All the way home the decision bothered me (although I think the kids had moved on to other subjects), even though I know we made the right choice given our tank capacity at home right now.

So why am I sharing this? I would like to know how often you folks face a situation like this, and how do you make yourself feel better when you know you did the right thing in a situation like this, but you REALLY wanted to just grab those little fish and take them home with you?

Cheers, Eric

[Mol_PMB]

Interesting question

I usually try and have a bit of space in a tank for that 'impulse purchase' as I am not as strong-willed as you! But of course it's not just about tank space, also about water temperature, tankmates etc.

There are some fish I couldn't pass without buying (to add to existing species groups, in my case Cory oiapoquensis and L244). Of course they are rare as hen's teeth here!

But I've been sorely tempted by other Cory species in the past, sometimes managed to leave them in the shop and sometimes brought them home. Such impulse purchases rarely fit in with my 'plan' and sometimes I end up regretting buying them and/or selling them on. In some cases they just don't seem to do well for me. On other occasions they become a new favourite (like the oiapoquensis)

I don't know if that helps or not?

Seasons Greetings,
Paul


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[Mol_PMB]

Edit: accidental double post, sorry.

[Richard B]

It is always better to err on the side of caution when you have limited tankspace available - if only more people had your resolve!

[dpm1]

I have a few self imposed rules that have served well over time.

Separate tanks in to niches
Eg. so you aren't tempted to buy multiple day active substrate species only to find your nitrates through the roof before finding that pleco/oto/shoaler/snail/shrimp/surface dweller than would round out the tank. Plan ahead even if the exact species and numbers is flexible.

Dont impulse buy - 2 reasons
1. Far more likely to buy a fish with a hidden issues. Some species are masters at this and although today that 'must have' fish is fine, tomorrow it may succumb to NTD or DGV or other incurable or difficult to treat ailments.
2. 'Pretty' fish are many peoples downfall - do I need to mention anything more than sharks and commons? Research is vital to avoid OMG! realisations that 'perfectos' is an anagram of 'potential problems'.

Of course you may already have researched and may not be willing or able to let the fish lie in the shop for another week or two to weed out the weaklings or allow problems to show - however I call this more of a 'unplanned' than 'impulse' purchase as it's more a calculated risk than a complete shot in the dark.

Don't buy from an unknown shop on a first visit. Sometimes you'll have no choice eg online buying, or that 'once in a lifetime' affordable rarity, however in general I recommend multiple visits, using trusted stores, read unbiased reviews, even ask people for a 1-100 rating if needed.

QT. Some shops are great but I've known it vary from a couple of hours to 'as long as needed'. If you don't know the shops routine ask, and if they refuse/are vague/are clearly inadequate then it's 3 choices:
1. Don't buy
2. Come back later, preferably several occasions before buying
3. QT at home - not everyone has the facilities or motivation, even for the riskiest purchases, in which case don't buy in the first place.

I've lost count of the numbers of fish ive missed out on because I've waited that little longer before purchase, however I do still have the occasional 'unplanned' buying spree - although only from trusted shops (fortunately I have a good selection locally).
....
From experience the hardest thing in fishkeeping is not kelping the fish alive, but rather not buying them in the first place!

Congratulate yourself if you have even a modicum of control if you find yourself staring at a 'Wish List' fish on payday!

[bekateen]

Separate tanks in to niches
Eg. so you aren't tempted to buy multiple day active substrate species only to find your nitrates through the roof before finding that pleco/oto/shoaler/snail/shrimp/surface dweller than would round out the tank. Plan ahead even if the exact species and numbers is flexible.

That was my dilemma. We were going to these stores looking for mid-water and surface swimmers, not more bottom feeders (e.g., I would have definitely bought oil cats).

2. 'Pretty' fish are many peoples downfall

That's what almost got me!!! LOL. And to make matters worse (more tempting), before I left the store I looked at both spp. on PC. I discovered that dupicareus is a cooler temperature sp.; currently I have one tank with just barbatus, and that tank is about 8-10 degrees F cooler than my other tanks. When I read that duplicareus likes cooler temps, I thought, "Great, tankmates!" But then I went back to my concerns listed above and talked myself out of the purchase. Besides, would barbatus and duplicareus be poor tankmates because of the size disparity? If anyone knows, please share, because in the future (but not anytime soon obviously), I may go back and get those duplicareus.
Cheers, Eric

[Viktor Jarikov]

Feelings are misleading. I'd not rely on them here. I'd rely on reason and you apparently did the right thing. No visible need to second guess or wallow in your feelings.

If one simplified this picture to the core, it could be the following: either you are troubled by not getting that little something that your heart wanted for you/kids, or your feeling is a manifestation of knowing that somehow you could buy these fish in good conscience (e.g., by having space, time, enough commitment for another tank, etc.).

Let's leave unresolved issues, sporadic dissatisfaction with life, possible childhood traumatic experiences, etc. out of this session for now

[bekateen]

If one simplified this picture to the core, it could be the following: either you are troubled by not getting that little something that your heart wanted for you/kids, or your feeling is a manifestation of knowing that somehow you could buy these fish in good conscience (e.g., by having space, time, enough commitment for another tank, etc.).

You're close on both points: first, after visting all these LFS, we didn't find any fish that really suited our needs and interested us, so we went home empty-handed; I didn't want to go home without some fish (we drove a long way to get to San Fracisco), and while these two spp. weren't what we were looking for, I could have bought them, especially the duplicareus because I've always liked their coloration.

Second, when I say I have no tank space, that's not exactly true: we keep two spare empty 10-gallon tanks running at all times, one for QT and the other for growing out Cory fry; which we usually get more of on a monthly basis. So it was very tempting to take over one of these tanks for the new Corys, but I think you can see how that would cause space problems later.

Cheers, Eric

[kvnbyl]

you've got more willpower than me. I've been known to buy the fish and then cruise Craigslist on the phone on the way home to find something to put them in long term. I've got 11 tanks so I have a little more flexibility but if I see something I've wanted for a long time and am not likely to see again........... ( the devil makes me do it.) :YMDEVIL. where I live there used to be 8 good stores within a 20 min drive, they are all gone, the 2 stores left are about an hour away so like you I don't like to go home empty handed after putting out 30.00 for gas and tolls. the smart thing to do is exactly what you did but life has to have some spontaneity!

[bekateen]

if I see something I've wanted for a long time and am not likely to see again........... ( the devil makes me do it.) ... life has to have some spontaneity!

Hi kvnbyl,

I'm with you on both of these points. If I had seen something I've wanted for a long time, I would have bought it without a thought! And it was the spontaneity factor that almost convinced me to buy the duplicareus.

Sadly, I suspect that what ultimately drove me to reject the purchase was not that these weren't on my "fish to buy" list, but more a fear that I would buy all these fish and end up with just one sex, and have an overcrowded tank, and still not have any of the open-water fish I was actually seeking in the first place.
Cheers, Eric

[bekateen]

I usually try and have a bit of space in a tank for that 'impulse purchase' ... But of course it's not just about tank space, also about water temperature, tankmates etc.

There are some fish I couldn't pass without buying (to add to existing species groups, in my case Cory oiapoquensis and L244). Of course they are rare as hen's teeth here.

Hi Paul, Exactly, while I did have tank space for what I was looking for, yesterday I had no extra space for any impulse buys. And I know what you mean about certain fish you just can't pass up. For me it would include the oil cat, L397 (I bet this one is on a lot of people's Christmas list, but that's another thread LOL), C. robineae, C141, and two pencilfish (N. rubrocaudatus and N. mortenthaleri).

Cheers, Eric

[Shovelnose]

So in the end, we chose to not buy the fish, and to wait until we have more open tanks. All the way home the decision bothered me (although I think the kids had moved on to other subjects), even though I know we made the right choice given our tank capacity at home right now.

This usually happens to me every time I see a Hemibagrus in any nearby LFS. I pray fervently hoping it will miraculously morph into a dwarf species but yes, it usually sticks to its true form, either H.nemurus or a species from the H.nemurus complex.

[bekateen]

This usually happens to me every time I see a Hemibagrus in any nearby LFS. I pray fervently hoping it will miraculously morph into a dwarf species but yes, it usually sticks to its true form, either H.nemurus or a species from the H.nemurus complex.

Indeed, I've hoped for the same thing many times in regard to some of the lager, more colorful plecos and cats. So far, the largest fish we've ever purchased intentionally was an albino BN. But I'd love to buy something like P. Schaeferi L203 or some of the Raphael cats if I saw them in a store and I knew they wouldn't get over 4-5 inches long when full grown... Hmmm, it almost makes me wish for dwarfed "frankenfish." (okay, I don't really mean that: I'm just joking LOL). But seriously, this goes back to making wise choices and avoiding impulse buys when a fish is new or colorful or rare, just because it happens to be available.

Cheers, Eric

[Bas Pels]

I think it has been 13 das now, when I last visited a fish shop. THey offered Satanoperca lilith, the most beautifull ones I ever saw. I must have spend an hour looking at them

However, I can not house them, for lack of tank space. So I did not buy them.

3 days later I found a solution, if I would be able to sell all fishes in 1 tank, I could get them, and the shop does buy from anyone. But they declined my offer

I think fishes don't choose to be pets, and therefore we must provide them with the best possble care. If w can not do so, we better keep them where they are. In the sop, or better in nature

[Mol_PMB]

... And I know what you mean about certain fish you just can't pass up. For me it would include the oil cat, L397 (I bet this one is on a lot of people's Christmas list, but that's another thread LOL), C. robineae, and two pencilfish (N. rubrocaudatus and N. mortenthaleri).

I've seen most of those for sale in the last 6 months, certainly Pier Aquatics has had the L397 and the C.robinae recently (and I managed to resist them!). But you're on the other side of the Atlantic, I think...


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[JamesFish]

Well done for restraining. An impulse buy or 2 can cause havoc on your tanks. Has in my experiance atleast.

Even if you miss the odd fish unless its really rare would suggest its better. Fish you can rarely get I think most would forgive an impulse buy if you needed to move it on later on.

[rcbows]

Here in the US most of the LFS are gone in favor of the chains. I still visit them all on a monthly basis to see if they have anything unusual. I am always looking for Corey's species and unusual catfish. I often see a lot of Corey's that I want and would on impulse buy them if I had the money. I can usually fined space for a new species by moving stuff around so they are in isolation. I have over 100 tanks so getting space is easy, even having tanks I am not using at the present. (2 (20) longs and 1 (30) gallon). Having MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome) its hard to resist a new fish to buy at any cost!

Ron

[bekateen]

Here in the US most of the LFS are gone in favor of the chains.

Indeed, this is true out west also. My brother used to operate an independent LFS in Olympia, Washington, and he went out of business within a few years of Petco and Petsmart chains arriving in town. My town of Stockton still has three independent LFS, but they are also competing with both Petco and Petsmart. I think I'm lucky that my local stores are holding on.

Having MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome)...

LOL, yes! I'm far behind you with only 6 tanks at the moment, but I fully understand.

Cheers, Eric

[jodilynn]

Ah, yes...

The magnificent Corydoras Barbados (sp) that my LFS had, but alas I did not have my big tank set up. BUT I went in a different direction with that tank so I am glad I did not get them.

So, in that instance, not getting them was good!

But I still lament the absolutely gorgeous male "elephant ear" Betta that was the most impossible shade of purple I'd ever seen (but it was at Petco, not my favorite place), and a female Betta at the LFS that was the color of an orange creamsicle (Betta's are my other weakness, other than my catfish...). I am truly brokenhearted over those two Bettas. You may see species of fish come and go, pop up here and there, but Bettas of particular colors and finnage...those may be once-in-a-lifetime sights.

I am currently lamenting some Midnight Cats I had found a couple weeks ago. THey were labeled under some weird name I'd never heard, so I wasn't sure what theywere and didn't get them . I am hoping maybe they will still be there when I make a return trip (this LFS isn't close to me). But upon talking to some people on the board it was probably good that I didn't buy them and introduce them into my 55, as apparently my synos, my red tail shark, and Raphaels would be too much for them. I just set up a 40 gallon cube for my son that will have angels, corys, tetras, gouramis and some upside down cats that are apparently better suited for them to reside with.

My last "gotta have it" purchase was from a chain store with a fish department, I thought I was getting an Upside Down Syno and it wound up being a Featherfin (about a 5 inch difference in mature size!). While I did wind up with the lovely 55 gallon to house him and some fellow bigger cats in, I now am SUPER careful before I "leap" as I am unsure how long it will be before I get my 100 gallon.

So, I guess, you have to look at is as, if it is meant to be, it will happen, you'll get that fish, and if not, it probably is a good thing you did not for whatever reason.

SO just know that you are not alone, we all have "regrets", sometimes about what we didn't get, and sometime about what we did. I had gone to pet store that was closing with my dad when I was about 15 and the owner sold us a tank and a Red Devil Cichlid telling us it would become a great fish, just like an oscar, a real neat pet!

Well, the (fill in the expletive of your your choice ) attacked me one day when I was cleaning the tank and bit me up so bad I had to go to the hospital for a tetnus shot. The doctors and nurses laughed their asses off at me because I'd been "bit by my pet fish". I'm sure they were so ignorant as to assume it was like some overgrown goldfish I suppose, but that memory has made me think twice about buying a fish I don't know anything about!

[bekateen]

My last "gotta have it" purchase was from a chain store with a fish department, I thought I was getting an Upside Down Syno and it wound up being a Featherfin (about a 5 inch difference in mature size!).

Jodilynn, I had exactly the same experience at Petco (your favorite, LOL). In my town, I bought a small (3/4 inch) upside-down cat at Petco, and within two years it was almost 8 inches long (TL). I already had two other real USD cats, and this was clearly different (it's like buying a Chihuahua and getting "Clifford the Big Red Dog"). This was in a crowded 36 gal tank, so I traded it back to a reputable LFS. I also went back to Petco and told them of the error, but they never changed. To this day my local Petco is still selling small featherfin squeakers as USD cats.

Well, the (fill in the expletive of your your choice ) attacked me one day when I was cleaning the tank and bit me up so bad I had to go to the hospital for a tetnus shot. The doctors and nurses laughed their asses off at me because I'd been "bit by my pet fish".

Great story! Back in the 1980s, I was breeding Budgett's Frog, Lepidobatrachus. A big female bit my thumb and her lower fangs (really these were points in her mandible, not teeth) pierced my thumbnail and drew blood!

Yes, sometimes these "beloved pets" aren't so sweet. LOL

Cheers, Eric