"Solid Black Ancistrus sp"

[rcbows]

Has anyone ever heard of a "Solid Black Ancistrus sp"? I have one male that is as black as night. I have tried to get him to change color buy moving him to different colored painted tanks (Blue, Red and White), but he stays a solid black. He was a through off from my original line of BN's. The colony has been closed since I acquired the stock from (3) different sources. No white tail although his babies have them.

I tried to find a female with his coloration to breed with him, but he wouldn't pair up with anything. I finally through (2) young light brown females in his tank by mistake, next thing he is spawning with both of them, I think. I noticed 2 separate size of BN's fry in the tank.

If anyone has a black female I would be interested in acquiring one! Let me know.

Ron

[Shane]

Ron,
Can you post pics of the male, females, and fry? If it turns out that you have hybridized two Ancistrus spp it would be good to document it.
-Shane

[rcbows]

Shane I only have the one male and it was a through-off from my Ancistrus Line. Here are the images I just took!






The last picture shows the brown coloration in the head area of this fish! It is prominent because of the light reflection from the camera. You can not see it very well with the naked eye. The fish looks solid black! These are the best pictures I could get.

Ron

[Shane]

Ron,
Picture below (taken of me by Jools in Leticia Colombia) will give you an idea of how to best get id pictures in a field expedient manner. Second pic is the one I took. Not great but good enough to get an identification. Hope it helps.

-Shane

[rcbows]

I tried to do just that but my problem is focusing my eyes are not what they should be anymore and I have a hard time focusing on a subject. I even bought a new (used 300 Nikon camera)and found it even harder to focus the camera , so I went back to the old one. I need to get a glass photo tank to take pictures in. I will work on it after I recoup from my heart attack, in a couple of weeks! I just figured if I asked the question I should be able to back it up with some kind of camera.

Ron

[Borbi]

Hi Ron,

this looks to me like an "off-coloured" male of your common Ancistrus.
There is a solid black strain of the common Ancistrus in Germany, but it is not very popular (and it is "more black" than your fish, as it does not show the spots visible in your pictures anymore). See here.
There even is an all-black (except when very young) wild Ancistrus, L88.

In any case, your fish does not seem to even be a pure strain black Ancistrus (yet). So breeding it with the common females won´t create hybrids. You would, however, be able to line-breed them and create your own strain of all-black Ancistrus..

Cheers,
Sandor

[rcbows]

Sandor

I looked at your picture, but if you look close you can see faint spots on the head. In normal light this fish is solid black, you can't see the brown spots. I added light to help the picture but I think it distorted the actual colors of the fish. Your fish looks exactly like mine, in normal light!

If I can't get a black female somewhere here in the US then I am hoping to find one in the many many BN's I breed, and I mean many BN's I raise, I have more than 25 breeders producing BN's all the time. So far I have found (3) oddball genes. The Black and what I call "Bull Nose" BN"s. They have a shortened nose and mouth. I have also line bread Albino's and Long-fin's with white tails (They don't lose them when they become adults) from these (4) lines and now have Albino's * Long-fin Brown BN's breeding also. I am line-breeding all three of these, at the present time.

Thanks for the input and I hope to hear from you again> You input is valued "Muchly"!

[Borbi]

Hi,

The Black and what I call "Bull Nose" BN"s.

those are (almost certainly) not genetic modifications.
I believe the more common term for that in English is snub nose and it is most widely believed to be the result of some kind of deficiency early on in the raising process.
It is kind of uncommon in Ancistrus, but happens frequently in, for example, Hypancistrus zebra. They also frequently pop up in Pseudacanthicus. Loricaria simillima is also very prone to produce a lot of snub noses.

There is a frequent debate going on about the reason for it, and the most commonly heard explanations are deficiency in some kind of essential vitamin (or some other nutrient) or, in the second "big camp", bacterial growth in the rearing container resulting from insufficient hygiene. In somewhat the same general camp are those that believe it is something in the water (such as certain phosphates) that causes this.

I am very careful in identifying the actual source, because I strongly believe that there is more than one potential cause for it (which would mean that it is the symptom of more than one "ailment"). I basically believe that they (the different explanations) may well all be right.
That being said, there were some German hobbyists that experimented with line breeding it (i.e., trying to find out if it is genetic) and found that it is most likely not genetic (i.e., snub nosed parents do not produce significantly more snub nosed offspring).

Cheers,
Sandor

[rcbows]

Sandor, due you know if the black coloration is hereditary? Can it be linebred into a strain of fish?

Ron

[Borbi]

Ron,

it can indeed be line bred.
You could just start out with your single male and a normal female and take it from there..

Cheers,
Sandor

[aquariumhobbyist]

Ron,

it can indeed be line bred.
You could just start out with your single male and a normal female and take it from there..

Cheers,
Sandor

So then he would have to pair off the male to one of the more promising female offspring?

[Borbi]

Hi,

So then he would have to pair off the male to one of the more promising female offspring?

yup, that would be the start..

Cheers,
Sandor