Syno robertsi

[Frido]

Hi community!
Let me first introduce myself. I'm from Germany, 30 years old and in the hobby since 3 years. My first love are cichlids, expecially from western Africa.
Now I found Synodontis robertsi on an internetshop (quality of the shop has been verified to me by several users on another forum). I ordered 4 of them, knowing how rarely they get imported. The fishes will be 5-6cm in size.
There is ,however, hardly any literature on this species so maybe some of you who have experience with this species can help me out a little.

For the first period of time I have prepared a 60 litre tank that has been running for quite some time, water with mid-level hardness and neutral pH.
24°C. The tank is well planted with lots of hiding places (cocnuts, ceramic tubes). No other fishes in there. I believe that should do for the first period of time. As an alternative I could also provide a 110litre tank, but that would need some reshuffeling of my other fishes on various other tanks.

Now a few questions: In the long run, how large should the tank be? Do robertsis stay group-oriented or will they need separate tanks later on? Regarding the max. size I've read anything from 8cm to 17cm, how large are your fishes? I hope to keep them for a longer period of time, but they seem to be delicate, any special risks or things I should definetly avoid?

I would be thankful for every first hand experience

Thanks
Frido

[Richard B]

Welcome to Planet Catfish Frido.

My Robertsi are amongst the most peaceful of synos i've ever kept. They are housed together & share their tank with ancistrus claro & phallichthys pitteri. On the whole (once settled) they are pretty hardy & dont need anything special at all.

It is a stunning species although i dont see much of them in amongst the bogwood & anubias!

[Frido]

Hi Richard,

that sounds good. What tank size would you recommend for 4 of them? What size do yours have?

Frido

[Frido]

Hi again!

I still hope to get a little more input. Especially on actual size and required tank size, is there anyone with experience in that regard?

Frido

[Richard B]

I only have 2 at present & they are in a 2foot

I'd go for a 30" for a group of 4

[Frido]

That's about how much I had figured, thanks.
On this link http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/bre ... ertsi.html the maximum size is said to be at 6.3inches which would probably require a 4ft tank.
Is this size realistic though?

[Richard B]

I've never encountered one bigger than 3.5" total length - i cant believe cat-e-log could be out by 3" so i expect that 3"SL is the max.

Maybe Racoll can say how big his were?

[racoll]

Maybe Racoll can say how big his were?

Mine were less than 3" I'm sure, but it was a while ago so can't remember exactly.

I still hope to get a little more input. Especially on actual size and required tank size, is there anyone with experience in that regard?

I kept three in a 60 cm tank with a couple of Microctenopoma and a small spiny eel with no problems. I think they will be fine in your 60 cm in the short-medium term, but they are a special little catfish, so maybe it would be better to treat them to something a bit bigger as their permanent home. A think a 90 cm or 120 cm tank would be good, along with a few other gentle African species.

[Frido]

Yes I'm thinking about getting an additional 100x40x40cm tank and keeping them along with Barbus fasciolatus.
They'll be here April 23rd, then they'll stay in the 60cm tank for the first few weeks. Already excited.
This is the dealer I will get them from, great stock: http://www.amazon-exotic-import.de/

[racoll]

I think Barbus fasciolatus would be an ideal companion for the robertsi.

Good luck with the tank. Post some pictures when the fish arrive.

[Birger]

I am quite sure the size stated in the catalog is correct. This is a small peaceful little syno. as mentioned.

Birger

[Frido]

They arrived today. Really beautiful fishes. So far a lot more active then my Synodontis flavitaeniatus. No aggression at all, I even believe they like to be in company since they loosly stick together. I'll post some pictures later on.

[Frido]

So here some pictures, single pictures of my skinniest one and of one of the bigger ones and one picture of two of them hiding together.
The actual size right now is 60mm in all of them, so that makes like 2.5 inches.

[Birger]

Excellent...hope they do well for you!

Birger

[Viktor Jarikov]

Looks like they got a real nice tank. Any tank shots, please?

[Frido]

I don't think the tank is all that special at 60 litres, but maybe I'll find some time to take a few more pictures to post.

[Frido]

Ok I got the picture

[Viktor Jarikov]

So natural and lovely. Looks perfect for the little guys.

[Frido]

Just wanted to post a little update.
All 4 of them are doing great and seem to have added some weight.
They will fight to some extend for food or hiding places, but those fights are harmless, no one getting hurt, everyone getting a fair share of food.
They don't seem to like acidic water, in the first few waterchanges I used water with a pH of 6.6. After that I noticed their respiration rate (or how you call that in English) increase every time. They didn't seem to like it. I've since changed to water with a pH of 7.4 (still soft water though) which does not affect them at all.
I ordered a new tank for the little guys which should be finished by this weekend, I only managed to fit another tank of 126 litres (80x40x40cm) but that's still more than twice the volume they have now. I'll set up the tank this weekend and they should move in another 2-3 weeks.

[Frido]

Again an update:

The guys have been living in their new tank for about 2 months now. I didnt get any Barbus fasciolatus for the tank though but I moved some Guppies in there and 4 Laetacara dorsigera. The S.robertis seem to like it and are quite active during the daytime especially when being fed. Maybe I'll try to get a video of that. The new tank has sand in it and that seems to work a lot better than fine gravel.
I would like to start a try to get them to reproduce in October when I do have a few days off (even if chances are slim). I hope I I do have both sexes. From what I've read most fish in the Lukenie river will spawn in the rainy season which is in October/November and will lay their eggs in flooded areas with low waterlevels and higher temperatures with lower oxygen levels, I'll try to copy these conditions as well as I can and hope the above is also true for synodontis robertsi.
Any hints on how to condition the guys?
Would you remove the other fish in the tank for spawning?
Should I use an egg trap and how would you set it up and position it (current/no current)?
Happy about replies.

Frido

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Lovely fish and a nice planted tank. I prefer sand as well.

Would you remove the other fish in the tank for spawning?

I'd be a little concerned about the Laetacara dorsigera, if either they or the Synodontis spawn.

I've never kept any Synodontis spp., but I have kept Laetacara dorsigera, and although peaceful at other times they are quite effective at protecting their eggs and fry, and don't tend to tolerate other bottom living species (like Corydoras spp.).

cheers Darrel

[Richard B]

From what I've read most fish in the Lukenie river will spawn in the rainy season which is in October/November and will lay their eggs in flooded areas with low waterlevels and higher temperatures with lower oxygen levels, I'll try to copy these conditions as well as I can and hope the above is also true for synodontis robertsi.
Any hints on how to condition the guys?
Would you remove the other fish in the tank for spawning?
Should I use an egg trap and how would you set it up and position it (current/no current)?
Happy about replies. Frido

If i wanted a serious attempt i'd use the 3 tank method (which could be adapted to the 2 tank method in this case if required).If you're not familiar with this i'll explain in a different post if you let me know.

In the artifial confines of an aquarium you could replicate the quoted conditions but i would increase aeration in order to ofset any negative conditions created by raising the temp in an artificial environment which could hamper the possibility of spawning. Conditioning is best i find with finely minced earthworms & TetraDelica gels foods, and live gammarus, bloodworm etc.

Certainly remove the cichlids but the guppies could remain as their own spawning may introduce secretions/hormones etc into the water to assist in the synos being ready to spawn. Current is IMHO not required (many fish that we are told need current dont as long as they have water that is massively oxygenated.

A layer of marbles on the bottom or fine mesh could be used on the whole of the substrate if a non-dedicated spawning tank is used - this does interfere with plants in the substrate, caves etc though

[Frido]

Yes if you could tell me about the 2/3 Tank method that would be great. I guess you would try to separate sexes (which I cannot because I don't know what they are) and then put them together into a newly setup tank with the desired parameters. I probably could arrange that with two different tanks though.
About the Guppies: since they don't spawn like other species maybe it would be better to replace them with another species or leave them out of the tank alltogether. Laetacara dorsigera on the other hand will start spawning if I increase the temperature.

[Richard B]

Frido

The 3 tank method is something used by commercial breeders & wholesalers, NHA (Neil Hardy Aquatica) in the UK where they have spawned granulosus & petricola and numerous hybrids without using hormones.

Essentially they have 3 tanks:
1 contains only males
1 contains only females
the last one is a dedicated breeding setup.

Each tank is condtioned over a period of time. The most likely male & female are then brought together in the breeding set-up for the spawning attempt, where they'll try to trigger the spawning (cold water change etc)

[Frido]

In the modified 2 tank setup would you then give the males into the females tank or the other way around?
How long would you separate the sexes?
For conditioning how often would you feed them and how much over which period of time?
If I did a 3 tank setup how large should the breeding tank be (right now the only easy way for me to do that would be with a 20 l tank) ?
When putting males and females together for how long would you try to stimulate with water change etc. a few days or more like weeks?

There probably isn't the one right answer I guess, but for a first try I would actually be really happy if I saw any kind of mating behavior.

[Frido]

So ok, as promised I made this little video and put it on youtube

[unblinded]

Thanks for sharing your video. This is a Synodontis that is seldom seen here in the US.

[Birger]

which I cannot because I don't know what they are

They are in good shape so it would not be difficult to separate them to sexes.... have a look at this nigriventris http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/ima ... 13654...it shows a male....your male would have the same between the ventral and anal fin...females do not have this...and females are more rounded in the body.

Birger

[Frido]

I'll try to get a good look at that when feeding them tomorrow.

[Frido]

I really cannot get a good look because they always swim so close to the ground, I would probably have to catch them for that.
2 are a little bigger and seem rounder and then there are two slightly smaller ones, but of course that is nothing definite regarding the sex.