Pictus Cat, Sun Cat Tank Mates, 50 gallon

[echankarsingh]

I have a new 50 gallon tank I am stocking with fish. I already have a baby Pictus Catfish(Columbian variety), baby Sun catfish and 2 full grown Tiger Barbs(outgrew the 20 gallon). I am wondering what other fish I can put in my tank, hoping for 3-4 inch ones and something kind of colourful and active would be nice. I like Gourmamis and Rams. How many other fish can I put in this tank?

[Richard B]

I think in the numbers you have this is a poor mix of fish

Tiger barbs are known to be nippy (although this can be reduced by keeping them in large numbers). They generally target long trailing fins, whiskers etc.

Pictus ideally need to be in groups (6+) for them to be happy.

A sun cat can get pretty big, easily big enough to eat rams & tiger barbs.

Some gourami species would be a good choice like pearls & gold, opaline & 3 spot/blue but may suffer from nipping

If there are specific fish you fancy we can always advise about them.

[echankarsingh]

Hi there, I was given the wrong info on the Sun catfish, was told a 6" maximum, I now know it's much larger then that. In all reality if the Sun gets bigger then 6" he will go back to fish store and I will trade for something else. I am getting 1 more Pictus catfish as I also didn't know they get lonely by themselves. There is only one smaller, docile Tiger Barb now and she's going back in the 20 gallon, her male friend was a HUGE jerk and just finished killing my betta and cornering my baby Pictus for 2 days, he's living in he fish store with Angels now....I REALLY like the Gouramis and know I can keep them..I was hoping there was a larger type of Ram that I can get that the Pictus won't swallow? Any large type Corydoras I can put in? I LOVE them and they are amazing cleaners! What types of fish would you suggest? Oh and how many can I put in?

[Viktor Jarikov]

As Richard said, pictus thrive not in a group of two (one will bully the other) but 6+.

Pictus are not known to prey on small fish, albeit an adult pictus of 5"-6" could swallow a 1" cyprinid rather easily. Even less so cories with their sharp spines.

[echankarsingh]

Umm, I am looking for tank mate suggestions not a crash course on Pictus catfish. Trust me I have read everything this site has to say and many others have to say about the Pictus catfish. If you must know, I will be upgrading the tank and adding more Pictus later on...right now, I am looking for fish options that are compatible with my 1" Pictus catfish. I have heard the smaller Cories get swallowed but I know there's one or 2 type of Cories that get quite big and won't be bothered by the catfish. Besides the Cories, I really need some suggestions for middle and top swimming fish that are compatible with the Pictus.

[echankarsingh]

Anyone at all have good suggestions? Been reading all the other Pictus catfish posts and really I am only seeing the same 2 suggestions over and over and then big long conversations about catfish care.....I just need more then 2 fish suggestions for my tank! Jack dempsey cichlid? Blue Ram? Blue Gourami? etc.....Rainbows??

[Birger]

Umm, I am looking for tank mate suggestions not a crash course on Pictus catfish.

I am talking as a moderator right now...the site welcomes your questions...but putting down someone that has given a comment to help you does not help you at all...I know when I try to help someone and they come back with attitude because it is not what they want to hear,I unfortunately refrain from adding any more comments...there is a lot of experience here that is usually willing to help with peoples questions. Proper questions and dialogue go farther than attitude.

Any large type Corydoras I can put in? I LOVE them and they are amazing cleaners!

Now talking as a hobbyist...can you explain what it is they clean...most Corydoras that I know do best with a good diet and proper substrate set up for their benefit.

Birger

[Richard B]

I'd avoid the Dempsey as they are a large pugnacious fish.

for some movement in the midwater, how about elegant rasbora's or giant danio?

[echankarsingh]

I never put anyone down, I was being blunt. I didn't want to have a huge back and forth conversation on Pictus catfish care, as I stated I have read and re-read the information on this site and many others. I do understand they like to be in bigger groups. I was and still am asking for suggestions besides a Gourami, Rasbora Tetra, Giant Danios(had bad experience with Danios). And as for the Corydoras, they have always cleaned up the extra food sitting on the bottom of my tank, thus they are good cleaners. I talked to an Aquarist yesterday and he said the Emerald Cories should do fine in my tank due to their adult size.

[Bas Pels]

Being Dutch, I know I am blunt. Therefore I don't mind being so.

You inquired after tankmates for your fish. Well, as you apparently know, a single pictus is a pityfull fishy, and therefore the suggestion was to keep more pictus

I don't see anything amiss with this suggestion, and it was not a lengthy discussion about the do's and don't of keeping pictus, it was just the best advise you could get

Together with a warning regarding the barbs

Now you repeaded you question. My suggestion is - read what has already been suggested. I am unable to add anything to it.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Birger, thanks. Written communication can indeed play tricks as someone with neutral or even good attitude may come off not so and vise versa. I've done that.

Anyhow, Echankarsingh, I know a little bit about catfish and not much about small aquarium fishes. I am more into larger fish, 2' and up.

Despite this being Planet CATFISH, guys like Richard and Bas and many, many others here are incomparably more qualified to help you in the department of danios, small cichlids, gouramies, barbs, neons, livebearers, and Co.

[echankarsingh]

So I am taking it that no one has any other suggestions besides a Gourami, Rasbora Tetra and Giant Danios? I still don't know how many other fish I can put in the tank with 2-3 Pictus catfish....and Birchir..I don't feel like arguing about one comment I made beforehand...so I will just look at other sites, figured "planetcatfish" would be THE place to get catfish suggestions...apparently not...

[nvcichlids]

silver hatchetfish at the top. keep a tight fitting cover as they are jumpers. mid water in a 50 gal, try some curviceps cichlids, smaller, peaceful, and shouldn't fit in the mouth of a pictus.

I have never seen a 1" pictus catfish.

Also, to help with suggestions, could you post a picture of the tank, and let us know what type of filtration you are using?

[Viktor Jarikov]

I think it is highly unlikely pictus would prey on any of these fishes.

As for catfish suggestions, I think any cory will do good in your tank. Cories school too, btw. SA bumblebee catfish, although they are hiders. Smaller hoplo catfishes may work quite well for you. Extremely peaceful and are as active all day long as cories.

[echankarsingh]

UPDATE: So my 50 gallon tank now contains 2 Pictus Catfish, 2 Dwarf Gouramis, 2 Large Pepper Corydoras, and a small Pleco(grows to 3''-4''). I am planning on adding 1 or 2 German Rams and probably 4 Dwarf Rainbowfish(1 male, 3 females). Is my tank fully stocked now? I would love to get 3 Kuhli loaches to add action to the bottom of the tank( and I LOVE them). Any suggestions? From what I have researched the mixture of fish I have should be fine as my tank has tons of plants(will have live ones soon too) and quite a few hiding spots(decorations).

[Viktor Jarikov]

One common rule of thumb says 1" per gallon, keeping in mind that taller tanks need more aeration / stirring.

That does not mean one 50" fish is fine. It means 50 1" fishes or 25 2" fishes or 17 3" fishes should be fine. Surely not all fish of the same length have the same body mass, e.g., kuhli loaches, which I think would be ok in your tank, are long and skinny and have a relatively small mass/length ratio.

It's a rule of thumb and there are others out there.

Stocking does not only imply the size of tank but also must imply the size (and proper set-up and care) of a bio-filter.

A different explanation / interpretation: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... -quot-rule

Another source: http://injaf.org/articles-guides/unders ... ng-guides/

[Bas Pels]

Rules such as Viktor gave apply for small fish - and I would nor call a 3 inch fish small - unless it is very thin, such as the kuhli is.

Generally speaking, if a fish gets twice its Original size, it is also twice as wide and twice as high build, that is, it is 2*2*2 = 8 times as heavy. However, to complicate matters more, I read in a book for professional fish keepers (such as trout) small fish have a higher motabolism than older ones, that is they pollute more. Therefore one can discuss a little away from this 8. Let's make it 7.

Thus 50 Brachydanio rerio equals 7 Danio malabaricus, a similar fish which grows to twice its size

7 or 25 fish of a certain species does matter a lot, don't you think?

[echankarsingh]

So a reserved estimate would show that I have around 22'' of fish in my tank once my Pictus cats and my Kuhli loaches are full grown. (I did combine their inches and -2 as they are SO skinny and I highly doubt they will get large as they are over 6 months old) So I figure that I am definitely going to skip on any Rams as they are super picky(water-wise) and won't do well with my Gouramis. So now I am looking at a Sydontis?(I know it's not spelled right) catfish, the smaller spotted one with a rounded fin on the bottom. And I just discovered the Killi fish, in particular the Gardneri Killi fish(Beautiful fish!!) OR the Peacock Gudgeon, though the Peacocks I seen were babies and could very possibly be swallowed by my Pictus later on....

[echankarsingh]

Hmph, now I'm reading that the Killifish in general should be in a species tank without things like Gouramis guppies(DUH), and other colourful fish as they are holy terrors and like to nip fins hard and kill other fish. Damn, I really liked them too, but they are definitely not community fish and that's what I like/want. What about a Kribensis(if I can find one) instead??

[Viktor Jarikov]

As I mentioned earlier, IDK much about small community fish, so someone else, please, advise.

As for the rule of thumb, most definitely Bas, as well as the first link I provided, are right. Much clearer and much more rigorously: 1" per gallon rule is 1 cubic inch per gallon, not 1" of fish length per gallon.

As stated as well, I am dubious adult pictus would prey on 1"+ fishes but if you found such reports, I'd of course heed them.

Synodontis is a very large genus (and from a different continent with, usually, different water). Which one are you talking about? http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/gen ... _id=29#258

[Richard B]

What size footprint is your 50G? ie how long & wide? (not height)

[echankarsingh]

So I now have 2 Pictus catfish, 2 male Dwarf Gouramis, 3 female Dwarf Gouramis, a Kribensis(he's getting along well with everyone), 4 Kuhli loaches, 2 Lg Pepper Corydoras. I absolutely love my Gouramis, really wish I could put a Powder Blue in there, my LFS has some really vibrant ones But, after alot of consideration and researching, I think I will be adding 4 small Rainbowfish at the end of the month.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Have you somehow missed Richard's question?

[echankarsingh]

Okay so I wasn't able to get on here for awhile as my crap computer crashed. Sooooo, I finally found someone to take my Sun catfish and I traded him for a 4" Opaline cross Blue Dot Gourami(1 year old), he's very beautiful and healthy....but my problem is I read numerous times that Gouramis will dull or darken in color when they are angry or stressed. My gourami was happy(for the most part) and a very nice light blue when I brought him home, he swam around lots for the first day but now for the last 2 days he has been hovering in one corner(most of the time) and he's Very dark blue. I watched him for an hour last night and he went for 1 short swim, then back to the corner and dark blue again so I made him a nice cave, and he was using it this morning but still a dark blue colour....Should I be concerned or am I just way overreacting?? Is there a treat I can give him to get him to "come out of his shell"?

[echankarsingh]

I totally missed Richard's question. I have to confirm the measurements but it's 36"x18"x19".

[echankarsingh]

Update for my tank contents: 4 Kuhli loaches, 2 Lg pepper Corydoras, 2 Pictus catfish, 1 Kribensis, 3 Dwarf Gourami females, 1 Dwarf cross Neon Blue Gourami, 1 Dwarf Fire Gourami, 1 Opaline cross Blue Dot Gourami(4" full grown already)...I re-homed the Sun catfish recently and acquired the crossed Gouramis at the same time. I've decided against the Rainbowfish as my LFS has crappy selection and they only have the Neon Dwarf variety. I am thinking I will just add a Honey Gourami female or a Pearl female Gourami? And then my tank is full(in theory after factoring in their adult lengths). I added a 10 gallon TopFin filter for extra cleaning power and will be upgrading my other filter to a 60 gallon AquaClear C4. I have a double air pump but it seemed like the second air pump was creating so much current that I had an extremely cloudy tank, from constantly stirring up particles, etc. So I removed the second air stone from my tank and moved the pump over to the middle of my tank for an even current. I have 2 larger ornaments, a home-made cave, a medium piece of driftwood, 1 Anubis plant, 4 Water Lily(adding more later), and various plastic plants. Anything I should be adding/removing for the benefit of the type of fish I have?

[Viktor Jarikov]

I am no gourami expert. In general, it is not unusual for a fish to take 1-2 weeks to adjust and get stress-free (if everything else is fine).

The tank sounds ok. I'd not remove the air pump unless the stirring blows the fish around and stresses them. Barring this, one cannot have too much aeration. Aeration can be your saving grace when/if something goes awry and things will go wrong for sure at some point. Esp. I see that your filtration safety margin is rather small.

With two filters you should not have any problem with particles. Am I missing something? The filters provide biological as well as mechanical filtration. If you use carbon too, I'd remove it and use the space for bio media.

[echankarsingh]

To be honest, I believe the cloudiness is my own fault. I was re-arranging my tank a few days ago and I had Java moss glued to my driftwood, well not thinking clearly I removed the entire piece of driftwood from the tank as I could not catch my Sun catfish...I left the driftwood out for 20 minutes and then put it back in. Next day, BAM tank is ridiculously cloudy to the point I can't see my Gouramis. Then I was staring at the tank and noticed tons of particles being sucked into the air stones and being shot up to the top, drop back down and then around and up again....I seen tons of particles floating up off my Java moss and being sucked into the current. Which is the only reason I removed the one air pump, to slow the current and let my tank clear medication "catch" the particles. It's slowly clearing up now, one more treatment tonight and it should be almost totally clear tomorrow. I am going to re-arrange my tank agin tonight, to provide better swimming room for my new Large Gourami, and then I will post pictures of my tank for suggestions. To be honest, my 40 gallon filter came with the tank and is at least a couple years old, I definitely need to upgrade it to a filter that will better handle large fish bioload. My 10 gallon filter is kind of crappy too, isn't spitting the water out properly and I just set it up But I need it for filtering anyways not for aeration.

[echankarsingh]

Okay dumb question....I do use carbon(on the suggestion of my LFS)....so what is "biomedia" that I should be using instead??

[Viktor Jarikov]

There are three common types of filtration: mechanical, biological, and chemical. Carbon does the last one but it appears to me that when the source of water is good and the keeping practices are good, carbon is not needed at all. It just takes up the space that is crucial and could be used for bio media, that is the media that hosts beneficial, nitrifying bacteria, such as sponges / pads, bio balls, ceramic rings, etc.