Synodontis ID

[Karl K]

Hi, i have a Synodontis Catfish that i cant id, hoping you guys can help me.
I cant seem to find out how to upload pictures, so i will link, to where i uploaded them on another forum, hope thats ok.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 1400078637

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 1400078637

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... 1400078637

Looking forward to learning from this forum, in this thread and hopefully others.

[JamesFish]

Lots of them put it in the search in the box and have a look through and see what you think matches your fish. Have a go through see what you can find one of the experts might trundle through and answer you but you might find it faster to have a try going through. Might also find a new cat you want to keep an eye out for.

The upload attachment is how to add pictures its under the post bit and next to options. Probably the most useful thing in my answer to you.

This is a guess on my part "http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/spe ... es_id=1062" Its close but don't think its right.

[Birger]

Have a look at

Synodontis schall

Birger

[naturalart]

How long have you had these fish? What size are they? Did you get them all together/the same time? Take a look at S. bugetti or macrops.

[Karl K]

I've had this one for a long time, maybe years. Its 9 - 15 centimeters. I only have one that looks like this. I have one Hybrid, and one i have ided my self as Synodontis,however it looks a little like a picture of Synodontis Bastiani i found. Is there any speciel features on the Synodontis i linked the pictures too, i should look for, to id it?

[naturalart]

It looks like an older fish. 9-15cm is small for syno's. You have a better view than I, but it seems bastiani has more angular features. Maybe it will grow some more.

[Karl K]

It seems a little like a bastiani. It seems that some Synodontis (Atleast Eupterus) dont seem to reach there full sizes. I havent measured it, so i could be wrong.
If i where to measure it, what would the best way be?

[naturalart]

Get it into a clear holding container then set it on top or in front of a measuring ruler. Allow it to calm down, then take pics.

[Karl K]

Thank you. Is there supposed to be water in the container?. I could do that.

[naturalart]

yes, in water.

[Karl K]

Ok, i will catch it, measure it, and take some pictures, hopefully this will help with the id.
Thanks for all the help.

[Karl K]

Measured the unidentified Synodontis. Its about 19cm - 20cm.

[jippo]

I have missed this topic before but in my eyes this looks hybrid.

[Karl K]

Any idea what hybrid or between what?
To me it looks like a Bastiani.

[Birger]

Actually I have been doing some looking on S. bastiani...what I would like is a shot of the barbels...what I am after is the inner mandibular barbels, than I could say for sure what I am thinking.There is too much glare to see what I want in your current pictures


Keep in mind that the area S. bastiani comes from has hardly been collected now for awhile, collectors are just recently going back in there if I am correct...you say you have had the fish for some time...how long??

Birger

Sent from my MB525 using Tapatalk 2

[Karl K]

I will get pictures of the barbels today.
I dont know how long i have had it.

[Karl K]

Here is one.

[Karl K]

Here is another one.

[Birger]

That showed what I was after...in S. bastiani the inner mandibular barbels should have nodules what looks like (for lack of better explanation) small bunches of bananas on them....instead these inner mandibular barbels only show branches with no nodules.

It is definitely not macrops or budgetti but to be honest now that I have spent tome on this I can not place it to species.


Birger

[Karl K]

So it isnt Bastiani?
Is there anyway to ID it ?
It seems to have a white dot on the backfin, does that help?

[naturalart]

It is definitely not macrops or budgetti

Can you give reasons why you say that Birger?

[Birger]

Can you give reasons why you say that Birger?

I certainly can, thanks for asking...Even though s. macrops has a very similar overall body shape, this body shape tells me this is a Nilo-sudanic fish most likely from the Nile and/or tributaries. Macrops really does have the silver to greenish/yellow colouration shown in the pictures in the Cat-eLog and as it matures the spots fade but the color stays. Many other wild fish when having this green tint... it will fade but not in S.macrops. S. macrops also has no dark bars on the caudal fin. They are a great fish being able to take care of themselves but not to rough otherwise and fairly active and curious. Often holding itself with fins erect instead of slumped in a corner somewhere.

Synodontis budgetti different coloration with no spots(juvi's can have some spots on fins but not near this much) and the body shape(short head,stout,thick)tells me that it is that of a fish from West African/Upper Guinean or Lower Guinean drainage's with some fish being in both bio-regions.....S. budgetti can also get quite big, over a foot SL...but the real tell is the humeral process, a adult budgetti will have three distinct spines facing towards the rear and as they mature the humeral becomes broader and blunter. Oh...and the branches on the outer mandibular barbels are to long...should be fairly short on those particular barbels.

Birger

ps. the fish in question above has a nilo-sudanic shape but I can not place this particular one. Not saying it is a hybrid but if it is it would have picked up this shape from a parent.
It is possible this is a hybrid in my opinion(now I said it...lol).

[jippo]

Any idea what hybrid or between what?

Sorry but I have no idea which species has been used to make this kind of hybrid.

I have seen very similar specimens before and as I am aware of they are hybrids. I tried to solve this species few years ago but results was that it is not a real species.

Here are two similar looking hybrids that I have kept, other one was sold to me with WF stamps and other one supposed to be genuine. Anyway both species are hybrids.

[naturalart]

Thanks for responding Birger. I can't tell if that is dark bars on the caudal fin, but if it is the case that there is distinct dark and light pigmentation to the caudal fin lobes, this would give us good indication of at least one origin of this fish/cross and I would tend to agree with your nilo/sudanic suggestion.

Also, if this is first-hand knowledge of growth patterns of macrops and budgetti, it would be great to have it in the species description.

[Karl K]

Hello, well just read this thread through again, and im still confused by this, its still doing good, might have even grown a bit, probaly a bit over 20cm. Its quite a calm fish, my Eupterus and my hybrid sometimes gets into some pretty hectic fights, but this one doesnt wanna get involved. I have though alot over this one, and looked alot at the different species, and i still dont know, any of you guys wanna try again with some new and better pics?

[michele]

Any views of the body......only a few species of Synodontis have feathered barbels....

[Karl K]

Their are a couple of pictures of the body in the first part of the thread. Im currently not home but will post new and hopefully superior pictures in the evening when im home.

[Karl K]

Oh the linked pictures dont work anymore, yeh ill do my best to get some really good pictures when im home.

[Birger]

only a few species of Synodontis have feathered barbels....

@michele...to expand on this.....this holds true for Synodontis with feathered barbels on the maxillary barbels (the upper barbels), there are only a few species(

Synodontis decorus

,

Synodontis clarias

,

Synodontis resupinatus

) that have this.

Most species of Synodontis have some kind of growth of this kind, anything from just bunches of nodules to full feathery growths on the mandibular barbels ( the lower barbels) but show none on the maxillary barbels...for example, look at the hybrid shown above by the OP you will see only the mandibular barbels have the feathery growths.

Membranes that follow along the edge of barbels are another morphological item that some Synodontis have and some do not and can also be used in the identification process.

Birger

[michele]

Do you have any sideshots of the body? Want to check out the dorsal and caudal fins....