Ever wonder what a sub-adult Paroon Shark x RTC looks like?

[Viktor Jarikov]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... atfish_-90

Photo of another one, mid-page 3: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... cats/page3

(baby mid-page 1)

[kingfisherfleshy]

These are awesome fish.

I bought his last Niger hybrid.

[Jools]

Viktor,

Would you be able to ask around your MFK pals for permission to put the hybrid in the cat-elog? Also, how do we know this is

Phractocephalus

as opposed to another large pim of bagrid? I've no real reason to suspect otherwise, just wondering.

Cheers,

Jools

[kingfisherfleshy]

I would like to do genetics on these fish.

It seems crazy to me that you can hybridize fish between two families (like mine).

Even crazier is that you can hybridize across families on different continents - even more distantly related more likely. Its described as a redtail catfish, but sometimes I wonder if that might actually be an asian red tail catfish in this case. Sort of makes sense with the very dark coloration of the fish.

[Viktor Jarikov]

For clarity, I'm not popularizing the hybrids... but it'd be silly too to close our eyes to reality.

I strongly dislike any man-made hybrids for ethics reasons. But being an educational venture and having the fish-keeping hobby and aquaculture as two of several main topics, I have to learn about these so I could lecture and answer questions intelligibly. When I have their exhibits up, I hope to buy some of these little Frankensteins.

The only ones I've ever kept so far have been TSNxRTC and TSNxLei.

Viktor,

Would you be able to ask around your MFK pals for permission to put the hybrid in the cat-elog? Also, how do we know this is

Phractocephalus

as opposed to another large pim of bagrid? I've no real reason to suspect otherwise, just wondering.

Cheers,

Jools

You mean the photos? Because the hybrid, I think, is in the Cat-eLog: http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/spe ... es_id=1956 - just baby pics. Need more of those too.

I will ask. The guy from the first thread (2008) has zero posts, I'll PM him but I don't expect to hear back. The photo from the second link belongs to Joey Ridah, who passed away in 2012. So, I'm not sure who has the rights to the picture.

Looks like our new member kingfisherfleshy is poised to supply pics as his grows. (BTW, are you FLESHY from MFK? Have you gotten it from Jurassic Aquatics?)(EDIT: oops, sorry, you bought the other hybrid they had in stock, TSN (supposed fasciatum) x (supposed) Oxydoras. Sounds like you ARE FLESHY )

I'll ask Mike Sema of Jur. Aquat. if he'd be willing to donate pics too.

Necrocanis, a member of both PCF and MFK, is the main hybrid guy and has the production notes. AFAIK, all the top dogs involved with this hybrid on the MFK side never doubted its parentage. Of course, as it is with any hybrid, there lies in a degree of uncertainty.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I would like to do genetics on these fish.

It seems crazy to me that you can hybridize fish between two families (like mine).

Even crazier is that you can hybridize across families on different continents - even more distantly related more likely. Its described as a redtail catfish, but sometimes I wonder if that might actually be an asian red tail catfish in this case. Sort of makes sense with the very dark coloration of the fish.

Paroon is dark too. What do you mean by doing the genetics? A DNA analysis?

This may be of relevance. Something we discussed with FLESHY on MFK http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... cats/page6

"Throughout history, people have been trying to hybridize various animals, from the same taxonomic family or not but from the same taxonomic order, usually, it appears. The only real success AFAIK has been achieved with species from the same family, best from the same genus: canines, felines, bunnies, poultry, cattle, swine, etc. Ligers, mules are examples.

IIRC what Necro told us, who is much needed here, "successful" (if one can call it that) hybridizations of catfish belonging to different taxonomic families is the first of the kind. That's one major reason Necro's collaborating with Dr. John Lindberg because they think there is some interesting and possibly breakthrough knowledge of the immune system biology issues. These can be useful in understanding and curing/changing human immune system."

[Jools]

You mean the photos? Because the hybrid, I think, is in the Cat-eLog: http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/spe ... es_id=1956 - just baby pics. Need more of those too.

Yes, it was mainly better/adult pics. There are three cross family hybrids I am aware of (this one, Pimelodidae x Doradidae and Pangasidae x Schilbeidae).

Jools

[Viktor Jarikov]

1. Not much to report yet on the photos. The request for Joey's photo has been submitted to the MFK staff by Rob (Chicxulub).


2.I hope Yellowcat won't mind if I quoted an excerpt from his yesterday's PM to me:

"...Speaking of hybrid cats, I went to a LFS last week and he had just gotten in a new hybrid catfish still in the bag, one I've never seen. The owner was told it was a TSN crossed with an African species, (looked like an African Bagrid or Claroteid species in the mix?) A handsome fish it was, most closely resembled a Clarotes Laciteps! If or when I go back to that store (not my main LFS) I'll bring a camera and capture a pic and post it since there's such interest in the hybrid thing..."

Apr 23 2014 EDIT: " ... False alarm about the possible TSN x African hybrid cat, sorry to say. Went back to the same LFS today and saw it in the tank. When I saw it last week in the bag it was hard to see, stressed and showed no markings or colors, just an overall slate grey and took what his supplier told him as a possibility. In the tank today, ($150) and color/markings intact it turned out to be one of those TSN x Doradid crosses, obvious with the tiny vestigial scutes on the side and TSN spots below the lateral line. The same supplier to the store told him that 2 rare cats he sold him were rare Africans, I easily identified them as wallago attu and wallago micropogon..."

[Jools]

It's not really a heightened interest in hybrids, but just that this isn't something we have well documented either pictorially or otherwise and I, personally, like having hybrids in the cat-elog so that everyone is clear on what they are.

Hope we can get some pics - that second post was a really nice pic.

Cheers,

Jools

[jurassicaquatics]

jools I sent you a PM