Why breed albinos and other colour morphs ?

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 08 Dec 2003, 19:32

Barbie wrote:You personally said you cull your breeding stock, but by doing so, you also are playing god, and directing the outcome to what you personally feel is ideal.

I cull my breeding stock as far as not letting fish with obvious defects breed in the next generation.

Barbie wrote:It's much like so many other topics in the world that could be argued endlessly.

Yeah, I've noticed that I did stir the proverbial hornets nest here.

Barbie wrote:You don't like them, so don't keep them. That's your right.

And a right I so far intend to exercise.

Barbie wrote:Judging other people harshly for not doing it the way you would, is unfair and unrealistic.

I may have failed here, but actually I wasn't trying to judge anyone. I tried to get someone to explain their fascination with albinos and other colour morphs. As an example I've got a friend seriously breeding large-finned guppies. These are fish I'd never keep myself, but we have excellent discussions on fish though we disagree on this one - I don't feel that I judge him in any way, just because we feel differently. ather, I feel our differences are a good basis for good discussions.

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 08 Dec 2003, 19:35

Coryman wrote:There are of cource other natural albino fish such as some of the cave dwelling species of which there is at least one Catfish.

Cave dwelling species aren't albinos, are they ? I've seen a cave-dwelling species of Poecilia - they didn't show any colors, but they definitely weren't albinos.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 08 Dec 2003, 19:47

plesner wrote:I've been thinking about the same. I think they would stand a better chance of surviving than if I chose to re-introduce a long-finned variant or one with less cryptic colours than their natural 'cousins'

Very true. There is also more chance I imagine of them retaining a degree of diversity within their genotype, than with anything that is the result of many generations of line-breeding. However fish do very quickly become selected for their ability to live under captive conditions, and even fish that look to our eyes like the original wild stock may have totally different dentition for example, under closer examination.

plesner wrote: Some species naturally live in VERY small bodies of waters where the degree of inbreeding consequently is rather high (certain populations of livebearers, anabantoids and killies come to mind). Apparently they don't show signs of inbreeding.

I think it's to do with the ability of the population to deal with a degree of homozygosity. If you take a fish of a species where heterozygosity is the normal state (such as Labidochromis caeruleus), and through poor breeding remove all that genetic diversity, problems may well result somewhere down the line.

coelacanth · Post by **coelacanth** » 08 Dec 2003, 20:23

plesner wrote:Cave dwelling species aren't albinos, are they ? I've seen a cave-dwelling species of Poecilia - they didn't show any colors, but they definitely weren't albinos.

No, they aren't. The subject of pigment loss in hypogean populations of fish is a fascinating topic in itself.

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 09 Dec 2003, 00:30

Coryman wrote:Far from being more noticable to preditors an albino Cory over sand is less noticable than any so called natural forms.

If this was true throughout the major part of their natural habitat, wouldn't albino cories be the rule rather than the exception ?

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 09 Dec 2003, 00:45

Katman wrote:very few things that man has spent
any time with that hasn't been changed in one way or another

Very true. Even if you do try not to interfere, you can't help influencing the way they evolve when you keep them in captivity. I read a rather good book on behaviour in guppies. A wild strain of guppies noticably changed colours over only two generations, when they were suddenly placed over reddish gravel. Before that, red colours had been quite dominant, but over red gravel, it wasn't quite as prominent and other males were suddenly preferred by the females.

coelacanth wrote:even fish that look to our eyes like the original wild stock may have totally different dentition for example, under closer examination.

Guppies may be extreme in this respect, but the above experiment tells me, that we can't avoid influencing how our fish will evolve in capticity. Consequently I think coelacanth makes a very good point about the possibility of changes in i.e. dentition.

Post by **Coryman** » 09 Dec 2003, 02:15

Pesner,

If this was true throughout the major part of their natural habitat, wouldn't albino cories be the rule rather than the exception

You may very well be right, there are many possible reasons these so called populations have surived. I say so called at his stage because as I said in the previous post it was reported to me first hand, but have yet to see the evidence. What were seen may very well have normal Cory species, which in the wild have a heavy golden sheen over their bodies and could easily look like albinos from above. Either way my reasons for breeding albino Cory's are, a) I like them and, b) they are a natural occuring fish and perpetuating then does not involve any human influance other than giving them good conditions to live in.

Ian

flyinmike · Post by **flyinmike** » 09 Dec 2003, 02:29

Katman wrote:If you look around you you will find that there very few things that man has spent any time with that hasn't been changed in one way or another.

Aaahhh, but things were changing drastically long before man came into the picture. As a matter of fact, depending on your beliefs, we ourselves are "mutants" of an earlier species.

plesner · Post by **plesner** » 09 Dec 2003, 08:54

flyinmike wrote:Aaahhh, but things were changing drastically long before man came into the picture. As a matter of fact, depending on your beliefs, we ourselves are "mutants" of an earlier species.

...and we wouldn't want the same mistake to happen again, would we ?

Herman63 · Post by **Herman63** » 10 Dec 2003, 21:27

Since my post was sited will post a reply...

I like all my fish which include 6-L204,6-L260,2-L183,12-albino c. aneus,12-c. rabauti,9-albino c.sterbai,20various types of syno's also I enjoy my albino bristlenoses and Longfin bristlenoses.

I feel that all my fish are interesting, ut that is why I have them.

Not meaning to make anyone mad but I feel this subject has been played out,this is the
3rd or 4th thread I have seen.

Also is this thread in hiding under Tank Talk?

Can't we just support peoples decision to keep what they like.

I had heard there was such a thing as an albino Barbetus and was just wondering thats it..

Take care all, Herman63