Which pleco to pick?

shad0wfish13 · Post by **shad0wfish13** » 28 Feb 2014, 23:35

Hello! While I am new to the world of planet catfish, I am not new to the world of owning catfish. In the past, I have successfully kept otos, rubber lip plecos, bristlenose plecos, and corys. I also had a very unsuccessful encounter with a clown pleco that wiped out an entire established community, but that's another story for another day!

Currently, one of my active tanks is a 10gal (US) with river rock substrate and no real plants (I had a snail problem in a different tank and that has turned me off of live plants for a little while). For a few months, I had kept a male betta in that tank successfully with 5 otos. The tank is fully cycled, temp at around 78 degrees F, and pH around 8.0 (nothing I do brings it down, all of my tanks have this problem. I'm looking into buying "betta water" instead of using tap, but that could get expensive). Anyway, I bought the betta as a pretty small juvenile, but as he has grown he has become increasingly aggressive towards the otos. One completely disappeared from the tank, no idea where he went, and I found another dead and floating about a week and a half ago (with clear indications that the betta had taken a go at him, though whether or not this was before or after the poor otos death is unknown). Needless to say, I removed the remaining 3 otos and they are now thriving in a different community tank. However, the amount of algae that has grown in the betta's tank is getting out of hand, and I'd rather use a fish to take care of it than a chemical. I was hoping to find some pitbull plecos, as plecos have harder scales that would serve as better protection as compared with the otos, but I've contacted 3 large fish warehouses in my area and have been unable to find the pitbulls. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for algae eaters that would do well in a 10gal and would be able to thrive with a moderately aggressive betta tank mate. The tank does have a small current from the filter but no other aeration as the betta didn't do well with it when he was smaller and because, at this point, I don't want to give all this algae any more reason to grow!

Kif · Post by **Kif** » 01 Mar 2014, 00:44

It does not really answer your question but I would look at the cause of the algae, treat the cause not the problem, some of the easiest to solve would be direct sunlight and or high nitrates.

exasperatus2002 · Post by **exasperatus2002** » 01 Mar 2014, 00:56

Treating the cause is best, but to answer the question, think bristle nosed pleco.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

shad0wfish13 · Post by **shad0wfish13** » 01 Mar 2014, 02:22

Kif wrote:It does not really answer your question but I would look at the cause of the algae, treat the cause not the problem, some of the easiest to solve would be direct sunlight and or high nitrates.

The tank is away from any windows with very little direct sunlight and the nitrates are zero. I've talked to my LFS and no one has been able to come up with the cause for so much algae (or how to lower the pH). I've been operating under the assumption that the stagnant water and larger river rocks are just asking for it, but I don't know if I want to go through the process of changing my substrate and dealing with the cycling backlash.

shad0wfish13 · Post by **shad0wfish13** » 01 Mar 2014, 02:25

exasperatus2002 wrote:Treating the cause is best, but to answer the question, think bristle nosed pleco.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Again, having trouble determining the exact cause since everything seems to be in order - away from windows, actually physically blocked from most natural sunlight, no nitrates registering in the tank (I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit) for months now. But I'll look into the bristlenose. The one I kept before got a little territorial, but he was housed with otos so the competition for food may have been the cause. My friend now owns that tank; maybe I'll look into getting him back. Or perhaps I'll look for a less aggressive specimen. Thank you for your help!

tomgiammarco · Post by **tomgiammarco** » 01 Mar 2014, 02:55

I know you said that you were not interested in having live plants right now, but I think it might be worth getting some Hornwort (Ceratophyllyum submersum). It would solve two of your problems. First, it would block a lot of the light and take up nutrients the alga is using to grow. Second, it would make the beta more comfortable and block his line of sight. From experience I know that the male beta will stay up among the weeds and won't bother anything in the lower areas of the tank. Hornwort is fast growing and requires no special care except thinning every now and then.

shad0wfish13 · Post by **shad0wfish13** » 01 Mar 2014, 16:14

tomgiammarco wrote:I know you said that you were not interested in having live plants right now, but I think it might be worth getting some Hornwort (Ceratophyllyum submersum). It would solve two of your problems. First, it would block a lot of the light and take up nutrients the alga is using to grow. Second, it would make the beta more comfortable and block his line of sight. From experience I know that the male beta will stay up among the weeds and won't bother anything in the lower areas of the tank. Hornwort is fast growing and requires no special care except thinning every now and then.

I'll look into it, thanks for the suggestion!

Valb68 · Post by **Valb68** » 01 Mar 2014, 18:47

I love Amazon Frogbit! Great floating plant, easy to remove if it gets out of hand, and great for lapping up the nutrients that algae thrive on, PLUS added bonus of light blocking for additional algae control, enjoys the slow current you refer to also. Good luck

shad0wfish13 · Post by **shad0wfish13** » 01 Mar 2014, 19:41

Valb68 wrote:I love Amazon Frogbit! Great floating plant, easy to remove if it gets out of hand, and great for lapping up the nutrients that algae thrive on, PLUS added bonus of light blocking for additional algae control, enjoys the slow current you refer to also. Good luck

I'll look into that one as well. Thanks!

dw1305 · Post by **dw1305** » 02 Mar 2014, 10:13

Hi all,
I think your tank is a bit small for a Bristlenose.

I know you said that you were not interested in having live plants right now, but I think it might be worth getting some Hornwort (Ceratophyllyum submersum). It would solve two of your problems. First, it would block a lot of the light and take up nutrients the alga is using to grow. Second, it would make the beta more comfortable and block his line of sight.

I'd definitely add some live plants, both the suggestions (Amazon Frogbit and Hornwort) are good choices.

One completely disappeared from the tank, no idea where he went, and I found another dead and floating about a week and a half ago (with clear indications that the betta had taken a go at him, though whether or not this was before or after the poor otos death is unknown)

Well done for moving the Otos, but it probably wasn't the Betta. Otocinclus are sensitive to water quality and need a tank with plants. You also need to feed them as they eat a limited range of algae and easily starve. When people have very "active" Otos that are always swimming around, they are starving, usually at some point they will just rest somewhere, but by that time they are moribund and the "end is nigh". Zucchini or Capsicum pepper are suitable vegetable foods.

no nitrates registering in the tank (I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit) for months now

Throw the kit away, and don't buy a new one. Other people won't agree but nearly all test kits are a total waste of money. I can tell you categorically that you don't have 0ppm NO3, you can tell this because you have algae. Algae is as much a plant as the aquarium plants we want. It has the same requirements, light and nutrients, including nitrogen.

cheers Darrel

mjh712 · Post by **mjh712** » 02 Mar 2014, 19:33

I noticed in one of the answers you said "stagnant water". Do you have a filter? Or a bubbler? plecos need high oxygenation as they are found in rivers & are also high waste producers

shad0wfish13 · Post by **shad0wfish13** » 02 Mar 2014, 23:20

mjh712 wrote:I noticed in one of the answers you said "stagnant water". Do you have a filter? Or a bubbler? plecos need high oxygenation as they are found in rivers & are also high waste producers

As explained in the original post, I do have a small current going in the tank from the filter, but I don't have any additional aeration because the betta couldn't handle it when he was younger so I unplugged the air pump. Now I am hesitant to turn it on because I don't want more algae to grow, but the air stone is still in the tank so all I have to do is plug in the air pump once I get the algae taken care of.

shad0wfish13 · Post by **shad0wfish13** » 02 Mar 2014, 23:28

dw1305 wrote:Hi all,
I think your tank is a bit small for a Bristlenose.
I know you said that you were not interested in having live plants right now, but I think it might be worth getting some Hornwort (Ceratophyllyum submersum). It would solve two of your problems. First, it would block a lot of the light and take up nutrients the alga is using to grow. Second, it would make the beta more comfortable and block his line of sight.
I'd definitely add some live plants, both the suggestions (Amazon Frogbit and Hornwort) are good choices.
One completely disappeared from the tank, no idea where he went, and I found another dead and floating about a week and a half ago (with clear indications that the betta had taken a go at him, though whether or not this was before or after the poor otos death is unknown)
Well done for moving the Otos, but it probably wasn't the Betta. Otocinclus are sensitive to water quality and need a tank with plants. You also need to feed them as they eat a limited range of algae and easily starve. When people have very "active" Otos that are always swimming around, they are starving, usually at some point they will just rest somewhere, but by that time they are moribund and the "end is nigh". Zucchini or Capsicum pepper are suitable vegetable foods.
no nitrates registering in the tank (I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit) for months now
Throw the kit away, and don't buy a new one. Other people won't agree but nearly all test kits are a total waste of money. I can tell you categorically that you don't have 0ppm NO3, you can tell this because you have algae. Algae is as much a plant as the aquarium plants we want. It has the same requirements, light and nutrients, including nitrogen.

cheers Darrel

I'll look into everything you said, except your criticism about my otos. I've had otos longer than I've had any other catfish, they were my first catfish experience, and I've had tons of otos at this point in multiple tanks. I always have fed my otos blanched zucchini and algae wafers, I've never let them just feed off of tank algae. This goes for every algae eater I've ever kept. I also remove any uneaten food from the tank after a few hours. My otos were always well fed AND active until now. I've kept otos just fine in a non-planted tank; in fact, I have otos that are a year and a half old and living just fine, perfectly healthy and active, and they haven't had live plants since October 2013. Maybe you and I have just had very different experiences, but I do not feel that I am doing anything to harm my otos in any way.

Also, if you are insistent that I have a problem level of nitrates, what should I be doing to reduce those? I already do regular gravel vacs and water changes (once a week minimum) and I use API Stress Zyme and Quick Start with each water change (along with API Stress Coat).

racoll · Post by **racoll** » 03 Mar 2014, 02:36

Also, if you are insistent that I have a problem level of nitrates, what should I be doing to reduce those?

In my experience, the best way to combat algae is though a combination of live plants and reduced lighting intensity/duration. Get some hornwort/frogbit, and cut down the number of hours the tank is illuminated. I also find that adding driftwood to stain the water helps too in cutting down the light.

dw1305 · Post by **dw1305** » 03 Mar 2014, 17:24

Hi all,

I'll look into everything you said, except your criticism about my otos. I've had otos longer than I've had any other catfish, they were my first catfish experience, and I've had tons of otos at this point in multiple tanks. I always have fed my otos blanched zucchini and algae wafers, I've never let them just feed off of tank algae. This goes for every algae eater I've ever kept.

No that is fine, if you are feeding them and they are fat as they say "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I only keep planted tanks, so I have no experience of keeping Oto's in non-planted tanks. For that reason it isn't a direct observation. Mine spend a lot of time resting and grazing on dead leaves, as well as on the plants.

Also, if you are insistent that I have a problem level of nitrates, what should I be doing to reduce those?

It isn't necessarily "problem levels", but you will definitely have some NO3 in the tank water. Unless you have very large daily water changes with RO you will have some NO3. As an example these tanks are very lightly stocked, mainly fed with live food, 100% rain-water with a 10% water change 5 days a week. The water is about 70ppm TDS, and using an ion selective electrode they have in the range of 7 - 15ppm NO3.

I have the same approach as Racoll, plants just make aquarium management so much easier.

Now I am hesitant to turn it on because I don't want more algae to grow, but the air stone is still in the tank so all I have to do is plug in the air pump once I get the algae taken care of.

Air stones don't have any effect on plant (including algae) growth.

cheers Darrel

Valb68 · Post by **Valb68** » 03 Mar 2014, 18:28

In my opinion, a 10 gallon is not to small for a BN pleco, we breed them in this size tank consistently and it sounds like shad0wfish13 knows how to do water changes and feed his algae eating friends efficiently. I think the addition of the hornwort or frogbit or both along with a nice BN would solve his algae issue. If you can't find frogbit in your area let me know, I'll ship you a bag, great stuff.
And I disagree about an airstone not making a difference in plant growth, as an airstone can dissipate C02 levels in a tank.

dw1305 · Post by **dw1305** » 03 Mar 2014, 20:04

Hi all,

And I disagree about an airstone not making a difference in plant growth, as an airstone can dissipate C02 levels in a tank.

But it isn't actually true for most tanks when CO2 isn't being added, mainly because plants deplete the CO2 in the tank during photosynthesis. It definitely won't make any difference to the growth of Frogbit, because floating plants have access to aerial CO2 (~400 ppm), this was one reason I chose a floating plant for the Duckweed Index <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =4&t=26791>.

The larger tank pictured earlier in the thread has both an Eheim Aquaball with venturi and an Eheim Ecco 2234 with spray bar at the water surface, so it has much more surface movement than an air stone would create. We use the tank to check the lab. DO meters, so we know that it is near to 100% oxygenation during the photo-period. As you can see lack of added CO2, or low nutrient levels, or high levels of dissolved oxygen have restricted plant growth to unacceptable levels.

Unless you have a tall, thin tank, with a very carbon rich sediment and a large bioload, when it could be true, in most other cases anything that creates a large gas exchange surface will lead to higher levels of both oxygen and CO2.

In a non-planted tank you always run the risk of low oxygen levels, and if you don't have some form of water movement you are always perilously close to lethal dissolved oxygen levels. This isn't as much of a problem for fish that can extract oxygen from gulped air (like both the Betta, and to a lesser degree the Otocinclus), but it is for many other catfish, particularly rheophilic ones like Hypancistrus etc.

There is a more complete discussion of this subject area at <http://plecoplanet.com/?page_id=829>.

Cheers Darrel

kimbo · Post by **kimbo** » 04 Mar 2014, 15:23

I have had bettas beat up on otos before. Had to seperate them.

Kim

Post by **Barbie** » 04 Mar 2014, 16:35

You do not mention your kH, or alkalinity. That is the level of your water that manages how stable your pH is. If you're going to start messing with your pH (and I don't recommend it, your betta is acclimated to 8 and as long as there is no ammonia, it is probably the least of his worries), you will need to buy RO water, NOT betta water. RO water has all of the minerals removed and it allows you to dilute the kH. The addition of any chemical to change pH should NEVER be used in an aquarium with fish in it. It can cause the pH to bounce drastically and kill your fish. I know otos would really not see the humor in such a bounce.

No nitrates is totally possible if the plants/algae are uptaking it as quickly as it's produced. Test kits have a very short shelf life though, so I would check that before I'd buy it wholeheartedly. Any time I see 0 nitrates I check for ammonia and nitrite, in case the tank is recycling for whatever reason. Hornwort is a very good nutrient sponge. IME, frogbit and other surface plants do not see the humor in a back filter, unless they are literally fenced to one side so they aren't constantly being blown under the surface and tumbled.

Barbie

Which pleco to pick?

Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?

Re: Which pleco to pick?