L-47 Mango dies

[Newguy5]

I came home from work to find my L-47 dead. It's housed with a L-91, L-137, and a group of Severums. Had him for about 4 months and he was doing great. Avert one in that tank seemed to mind they're own business. Water parameters are good and tank temp was always around 80°F. Fed only the best food. Mix of protein, vegetable, algae, and the driftwood that is in the tank. Here is a pic of it when I found it. Not beat up or no sunken belly at all. Just this white coloration in the mid-section

Here is one of him before he passed

Matt

[PlecosAndLoaches]

That's unfortunate. From both my own personal experience (having lost 2 the same way) as well as what I've read, Mangos are very difficult to keep in a tank for any length of time.

[Newguy5]

Sorry to hear that. Did yours end up looking the way mine did? Just trying to pinpoint what it was that killed him. I heard from a lot of ppl how hard they are to keep. Guess they were right


Matt

[PlecosAndLoaches]

Yes, frozen in place, just like yours. Did not show any signs either physically or behaviorally before finding them like that. I've found all Baryancistrus species difficult to keep for anything longer than 4 months, particularly younger specimens.

[.Plecomania.]

I wonder why such plecos are so difficult to keep.
assuming it has no diseases or parasites when you get it, it may be the detrimental effects of w/e technique was used to collect the plecos.

if the collection was done without stressing the pleco too much, then I bet it's something that is missing in the home aquarium. perhaps some sort of symbiotic bacteria they can get in their wild habitat from ingesting certain types of biofilm or something. (some bacterial strain that is only native to where they live in the wild, and that has to be renewed periodically. this would explain why they do ok for a few months until this "mystery" component runs out and they die) Or it could be some other element that they are missing from their wild environment. perhaps some stupidly specific nutrient or amino acid they can easily get in the wild but not from domestic sources. So they end up using up whatever they accumulated in the wild and then run out and die just as in the bacteria example.

So strange that these fish and gold nuggets seem to be doing well in captivity for a shot period of time and then mysteriously die off.

[Newguy5]

That very well could be. I'm no scientist or anything but it does make you wonder. I've heard from quite a few ppl about this particular Pleco being so hard to keep alive. I can't say the same for the gold nugget as I have a L-018 and have had it for a little over a year and it seems to be doing good. Very active and comes out when I feed every day to clean up the scraps the fish don't get too. Also likes cucumber alot.


Matt

[.Plecomania.]

I have read about numerous people having trouble with gold nuggets, similar to your experience with the mango here. Some have more luck than others. I haven't read about anyone keeping a gold nuggets for many years, but then again they wouldn't complain if their fish are doing fine, so we usually do not hear about such cases.
There is something mysterious going on.

[2wheelsx2]

I've never been able to keep Baryancistrus long. I have had B. demantoides, B. chrysolomus(L047), B. xanthellus, (L177) and B. beggini (L239). Of all those, I have had the most success with B. beggini. I currently still have 3 of the 5 that I got last year. The longest I've ever had any Baryancistrus was over a year. They inevitably just die one day, just like your experience. Sometimes they go off their food, but quite often they are fine until one day, I come home and they're dead.

[krazyGeoff]

Sorry for your loss.
I am afraid that I just don't really understand the Baryancistrus being hard to keep business, once they have started feeding in captivity.

I know they can be quite sensitive to oxygenation levels.

They are specialised grazer feeders. Vegetarian + daphnia sized critters.

What size tank do you have?

The L091 and the L137 are both "big" fish, and the Baryancistrus are quite agressive.
The thing about them being agressive is that even when they are small they think they are big, so they tend not to back down.

To me the fraying of the dorsal fin looks more like an aggression injury rather than and sort of infection. Also the pectoral fin is missing some bits. The fish looks a bit thin (to me), and I would guess that it has been killed by one of the other fish, and if the oxygen levels were down a bit then this would not have helped.
I would think that they would like to hide in the rocks, so it is possible it got trapped.

Cheers

[jac]

I have had my L81 and L200 for 7 years now and 3 larger L142 for 2 years. Absolutely no problem with any of them.
They can be difficult to get eating but after that they should be fine like any other larger Loricid.

[nvcichlids]

I thought I had read on here that even though you see them eating, they could still starve. Aren't Barys the ones with super long intestines, to if he was to say be eating massivore pellets or high protein in the form of prawns, etc, you could essentially be clogging its intestine with things it cannot digest well. Barys are fish I wont touch. even though my tanks are HIGHLY oxygenated, I can give them what they want and need, I just have yet to see any feed in person (pet shops, local importers, etc.. never see the fish feed there.)

Good rule of thumb with wild caught plecos, ask to see them eat before you purchase, and if they are feeding on specific foods, make sure to offer that to them an try to slowly ween them to the food you intend to feed.

just my 2 cents.


oh, and I remember reading an article I believe on here about how newly imported fish that are treated for parasites and other diseases could also have their intestinal bacteria killed by these medications.. I don't know if that is true or not.

[krazyGeoff]

I thought I had read on here that even though you see them eating, they could still starve. Aren't Barys the ones with super long intestines,

Yes that is correct

to if he was to say be eating massivore pellets or high protein in the form of prawns, etc, you could essentially be clogging its intestine with things it cannot digest well.

Indeed, massivore and high animal protein are (IMO) a super sized loaded gun to a Baryancistrus.
They are specialised aufwuchs feeders. A good food is reapshy soilent green, which I can no longer get in my country. I feed exclusively JBL NovaFect and zucchini to my Barys, a treat every few weeks is daphnia. The NovaFect breaks down and becomes almost a sludge which distributes itself around the tank, and suits the grazing type of feeder they are. The zucchini is devoured by the morning, so you can see it has been eatin.
Mine are all in species only tanks so it is obvious that they are eating it.
I have a small Baryancistrus xanathilis in a community tank, where it is the biggest pleco in the tank, and this one I can observe eating. The others I can observe possibly once per year feeding. If I really want to see them feed, I need to feed them, and then turn out all the lights and then wait 10-15 minutes in the dark, and then "flash" a torch to where the food is.
The exception to this is the fry up to 3 cm which will generally come out first to feed.

Barys are fish I wont touch. even though my tanks are HIGHLY oxygenated, I can give them what they want and need, I just have yet to see any feed in person (pet shops, local importers, etc.. never see the fish feed there.)

As above observing them feed can be difficult, especially if they are in a non species tank.

Good rule of thumb with wild caught plecos, ask to see them eat before you purchase, and if they are feeding on specific foods, make sure to offer that to them an try to slowly ween them to the food you intend to feed.

I agree, as long as the food you intend to feed is also appropriate for the fish.

oh, and I remember reading an article I believe on here about how newly imported fish that are treated for parasites and other diseases could also have their intestinal bacteria killed by these medications.. I don't know if that is true or not.

I have a similar recollection, perhaps even extending to the stress of transport also being a contributor to the upsetting of the internal bacteria balance and function.

In my country we are a bit lucky as the long quarantine period means that it is very obvious that the fish is not eating by the time it gets to the store for viewing by the customer.

Cheers

[Newguy5]

Sorry for your loss.
I am afraid that I just don't really understand the Baryancistrus being hard to keep business, once they have started feeding in captivity.

I know they can be quite sensitive to oxygenation levels.

They are specialised grazer feeders. Vegetarian + daphnia sized critters.

What size tank do you have?

The L091 and the L137 are both "big" fish, and the Baryancistrus are quite agressive.
The thing about them being agressive is that even when they are small they think they are big, so they tend not to back down.

To me the fraying of the dorsal fin looks more like an aggression injury rather than and sort of infection. Also the pectoral fin is missing some bits. The fish looks a bit thin (to me), and I would guess that it has been killed by one of the other fish, and if the oxygen levels were down a bit then this would not have helped.
I would think that they would like to hide in the rocks, so it is possible it got trapped.

Cheers

Those two are in a 65g at the moment but are still quite small. The 91 has it's hole dug on in the corner of the tank next to/under a piece of slate and the 137 is on the driftwood constantly. The mango use to hang out on the slate right by the 91 all the time. Never seen any aggression between anyone in that tank but I suppose it is a possiblity beings that they are out at night while I'm sleeping. Oxygen isn't a problem I have 2 emp400 on that tank that create quite a bit of surface agitation.


Matt

[Newguy5]

The tank

Matt

[krazyGeoff]

Thanks. Matt,
We work in litres down here, so am not good with the standard US sizes, what is the length?

Most likely it is 36+ inches? Which seems fine to me.

Personally I would have had another rock section at the right hand side of the tank.
As the location of the Mango's distribution (in the wild) is a rock based area, and with only one rock section then if two fish want that area then there will be a drama.

Cheers

[tagamasid1023]

I agree, hard to believe there was any hostility between the Mango and the Lepora or even the L137. If there was any, the Mango could have inflicted some damage on the others as well. But, I must admit, you could have used some more wood in there.
Based on the picture, there is no sign of trauma on the Mango that indicates conflict. The little nips on its dorsal and caudal fins are post-mortem inflictions, meaning its tankmates nipped at the defenseless Mango after its death. Remember that the Lepora has very sharp and pointed teeth. Conflict with it would result in severe bodily damage such as lacerations. Moreover, I have never seen such conflicts result in death as the overpowered one will definitely flee. There's also no sign of any spot where the Mango could have been trapped.
Overall, its just that for unknown reasons, Baryans are really difficult to keep. Yes, they are pleasing to look at but pretty hard to keep.
Good luck.

[Newguy5]

Thanks a lot everyone. I appreciate all the feedback. I have ruled it down to the Mango is just one tough Pleco to keep alive I guess. You live and you learn. Won't purchase another one that's for sure. Damn pretty species though!


Matt

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Bad luck, but

Oxygen isn't a problem I have 2 emp400 on that tank that create quite a bit of surface agitation.

You can't really say that, oxygenation is a much more complicated issue than many of us realise. Have a look at this thread and links <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =4&t=35930>.

As general rule it is much easier to maintain water quality in a planted tanks.

cheers Darrel

[Newguy5]

All the wood in my tanks is dead (hardwood) from Canada. The rotting process has been long over before entering my tanks. Interesting thread though!


Matt

[dw1305]

Hi all,

All the wood in my tanks is dead (hardwood) from Canada. The rotting process has been long over before entering my tanks.

No, I'm not suggesting that your wood contributed to the unfortunate demise of your Mango, that is the really the point of the linked thread (and linked threads in that thread). People often think that "plants at night" or "rooting bog wood" are responsible for the demise of their fish, but this is very rarely the case.

One of the problems with keeping Plecs like

Baryancistrus

spp., is that they come from water that is both warm and highly oxygenated, and straight away that becomes a problem because warm water can hold less oxygen.

Biological filtration, the biological oxidation of ammonia (NH3) to nitrite (NO2-) and nitrate (NO3-) is an oxygen intensive process, and if we are reliant on the filter bacteria to accomplish this and we are keeping fish with a high oxygen demand, we are always treading a tight rope where any small loss of water quality will lead to fish death.

This isn't intended as a criticism, but for me looking at your tank photo straight away alarm bells are ringing. The tank may not technically be over-stocked, but the combination of the fish, gravel substrate and lack of growing plants makes the maintenance of high quality, continually oxygenated water really difficult.

cheers Darrel