Bare Bottom vs Sand

[Triactis Trainer]

Is there any substantial advantages to using a bare bottom tank to breed rather than a sand tank?

[JamesFish]

This is my belief and others can disagree as much as they like. What works for 1 doesn't always work for another.

I think bare bottom is easier to clean but more stressful to the fish and requires more careful cleaning as you need to siphon the muck up than wipe it over. Sand I would shut the filter off stir let it settle siphon and done. I'm sure others will disagree with me.

[Triactis Trainer]

This is my belief and others can disagree as much as they like. What works for 1 doesn't always work for another.

I think bare bottom is easier to clean but more stressful to the fish and requires more careful cleaning as you need to siphon the muck up than wipe it over. Sand I would shut the filter off stir let it settle siphon and done. I'm sure others will disagree with me.

How would it be more stressful, please elaborate on that. What could make them stress out exactly?

[JamesFish]

I believe it would reflect light, shadows, possibly even make them believe other fish were present and that may lead to stress. Some fish may well be fine with it others probably don't like it.

If you want to test it out cover half the bottom of a tank and watch where your chosen catfish likes to sit. If its happy on glass bottom it will sit on the glass if it likes the sand it will sit on that. This is of course assuming a empty tank and moving where you feed so it doesn't just sit on the food. Sorry but only way I can think of testing it out and its a little crude other may have tried it or have better advice.

If you put up the catfish you wish to breed and if you are breeding directly in this tank or just raising in it a few more experienced members may be able to help out more.

[Triactis Trainer]

I believe it would reflect light, shadows, possibly even make them believe other fish were present and that may lead to stress. Some fish may well be fine with it others probably don't like it.

If you want to test it out cover half the bottom of a tank and watch where your chosen catfish likes to sit. If its happy on glass bottom it will sit on the glass if it likes the sand it will sit on that. This is of course assuming a empty tank and moving where you feed so it doesn't just sit on the food. Sorry but only way I can think of testing it out and its a little crude other may have tried it or have better advice.

If you put up the catfish you wish to breed and if you are breeding directly in this tank or just raising in it a few more experienced members may be able to help out more.

Alright well thanks for your 2 cents!

[.Plecomania.]

maybe the sand feels more natural than super smooth glass. that could be a factor is stressing them. i know some animals like shrimp become really stressed if they are left in a bare bottom tank with only a few decorations to grab onto. same with plecs probably.

[Chouin]

I would say it's a question of preference.
I have some friends that got tired of gravel/sand and now only do bare bottom setup.

As for me, I have both.
My 75g tank panaque is bare bottom. Never tried with sand, but had gravel before and it's was a mess cleaning all the poop.
If you have pieces of driftwood, poop accumulate under them...

In my 125g tank, I have sand, it's very nice, but I chose one that was too fine. When the plecos only move, it's fine, but when they start a small fight (L24, L114, Adonis, etc.), it look like a sand storm in the tank. You need to be very carefull with your filter intakes.
But I find it quite easy to clean with my siphon (the poop stay un the top of the sand, remove it every day with a net).

I just started a new 125g tank, painted the back and bottom black, bare bottom for now, not sure if it will stay like that ? Maybe will had small brown gravel ? For now, I only have small fish (11 tetras and 6 torpedo barbs) and 1 pleco (3" Adonis) in there. I don't see any problem with them, very active and not shy at all.

Here are my 2x 125g setup (they are side by side). Sorry about the filter sponges in the bare bottom tank, was using them for cycling (been running for only 2 weeks) and was too lazy to remove them...

[Bas Pels]

some fishes need to burrow themselves in the sand, others like to mumble sand. Obviously, these fishes will require sand, regardless their keepers wishes

Generally speaking, bottomdwellers will prefer the kind of bottom they would have hed in nature - sometimes clay, sometimes sand, sometimes rocks. Never the smooth, hard surface of glass.

For other fishes, the bottom is not that important, and the most important feature of the bottom is not to reflect light, which a glass bottom would do.

However, there is another disadvantage of a glass bottom. Just because it is so easy to clean, the fishes above it will not develop a trustworthy immunesystem. That is, fish raised above a bare bottom will have difficulty adapting to a normal tank.

Dutch people are considered bold, so I don't have to keep up appearences. I can state freely what I think of fish raised above an bare bottom: worthless

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Sand always, you can only use bare bottom if you are OCD about cleanliness. Have a look at this thread <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =4&t=38545>.

I like a sand substrate for reasons of water quality and tank stability, I also like plants for the same reason. You can still have sand in tanks with high flow, the "sand in the filter" problem is easily rectified by having a coarse pre-filter sponge on the intake, and the flow problem by using a mix of sand and and fine gravel. As the flow distributes the sand around the tank the coarser grains will be left in areas of high flow, and the finer grains in areas of lower flow. Areas of very high flow will have a bare bottom, and you can put larger rounded pebbles or cobbles there. In fact in the same way that a river would sort sediments.

Even in high flow tanks you should be able to move the decor around to give a flat spot where suspended fine sediment, faeces etc will accumulate. Put a piece of flat slate there, and then you can syphon out all the debris.

from <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 7&p=218764>.

cheers Darrel

[.Plecomania.]

plus sand gives that much more surface area for beneficial bacteria to live on so more tank stability!

[Triactis Trainer]

plus sand gives that much more surface area for beneficial bacteria to live on so more tank stability!

Do you think that this would benefit juveniles when they are ready to be put back in the tank?

[.Plecomania.]

maybe. juvies do like cleaning sand. also depends on the species. BNs would because they can find algae and maybe bio film on sand. same might go for other species

[Barbie]

The hundreds and maybe thousands of fry I have raised in bare bottomed tanks would be shocked to hear how frail they are considered ;). I hear quite a bit of different speculations in this hobby. IMO, there is no one single way to be successful. Everyone prefers the way they use, that's why they use it. I use a lot of flat slate pieces, caves, driftwood, and decor to make my fish feel secure. They survive, spawn, and I am frequently told of the ways fish that people purchase from me are thriving and reproducing themselves. I tend to be a bit anal retentive with cleaning and I do not overfeed. Your mileage may vary from method to method, depending on how you modify the factors ;).

Barbie

[Triactis Trainer]

The hundreds and maybe thousands of fry I have raised in bare bottomed tanks would be shocked to hear how frail they are considered ;). I hear quite a bit of different speculations in this hobby. IMO, there is no one single way to be successful. Everyone prefers the way they use, that's why they use it. I use a lot of flat slate pieces, caves, driftwood, and decor to make my fish feel secure. They survive, spawn, and I am frequently told of the ways fish that people purchase from me are thriving and reproducing themselves. I tend to be a bit anal retentive with cleaning and I do not overfeed. Your mileage may vary from method to method, depending on how you modify the factors ;).

Barbie

Well worded, Thanks for the input!

[David R]

If you want to test it out cover half the bottom of a tank and watch where your chosen catfish likes to sit.

I have done many substrate changes over the years with fish in tank, and have often noticed certain fish (particularly clown loaches and certain plecs, don't ask me which ones!) will always gravitate to the part of the tank that still has substrate. I don't believe substrate is necessary, but I certainlly prefer it and believe my fish do too.

[FerocactusLatispinus]

[quote=I don't believe substrate is necessary, but I certainlly prefer it and believe my fish do too.[/quote]

It's true substrate isn't necessary; diseases seem to spread more rapidly and infect fish when there is no substrate, though. I determined 6 months ago to change from smooth gravel to sand, and my corys, banjo cats, and bristlenose pleco have been so happy! The corys now all have perfect, long barbels (my C. paleatus has one branched maxillary/ upper rictal barbel! See my "My Cats" page!) and are sifting 24 hours each day!

[DOLEMITE]

I have just recently switched my pleco tank over to sand. I have noticed behaviors that I have never seen before in my plecos. My L200'S and my L160's seem to amost play in the sand. They shake around flipping the sand up. It really is amusing. As far as benefits I dont know, but the fish seem to like it.

[FerocactusLatispinus]

That's great! My Bristlenose loves to excavate deep basins/caves underneath the driftwood as well as the slab of slate.

As for benefits, I really don't know much but that my guy will sort of scoot along the substrate, "gnawing" on the sand. My guess is that he's filtering out particles, since I see some sand coming out his gills while he's doing this. I've read that there are some plecos that will like to bury themselves in sand (Spatuloricaria?).