ID needed for Psuedacanthicus

[jac]

Could some of the experts give their opinion on this fish please? Was sold as Psuedacanthicus sp. L065. They are fully grown adults.

[Andrewjw]

Looks very similar to, but not exactly the same, as some of my L-65s. Then again, mine all are slightly different appearing now that they are grown, although were indistinguishable as young. Here are some pics:

The top one is a male, and bottom (with spots) a female. There is another male in the other photo, lurking behind the female. I also have females that are solid black, without any markings whatsover.
(I dont know why there are repeat copies of some of the pics...i only loaded them once!) Also, those brownish wavy lines in the dorsal fin of your fish i have seen in mine as well, but usually are much more apparent in picutres than in real life! So, i would say these probably are 65!
Andy

[Borbi]

Hi,

they are L65.

Cheers,
Sandor

[jac]

Thank you both! I know enough

[PseudaSmart]

Jac,
Your photo shows the classic L65 faint wave pattern.
Andy,
Yours look almost identical to the group of L97s I imported directly from Brazil last year. They ranged from no spots, faded spots, to a lot of white polka dots. Some also have a slight wave pattern but not quite the same as the L65. I still have to post a breeding report and update photos for the L97e. Did you have time to look at doing DNA sampling?

With a small sample size (five total) the DNA testing shows no difference between L65s and L97s. The slight pattern difference could be part of the normal variance or region specific. I am trying to summarize all of the results from >12 different L-numbers but have not had time.

Hopefully I will be able finish early next year and post the results and start an interesting discussion.

Jim

[Bamboo]

that's a fat pleco ! reminds me of the rafeal catfish.

[jac]

Thank you Jim!

[jbmm]

Nice work you are doing Jim

Although I'm an IT engineer now, I have a study background in biochemistry (immunology) and would like to read more in detail about your work and research.
L numbering is only chronological/collection location based commercial classification, the DNA should learn us more about who and what those fascinating creatures really are ;)

Any resources you can recommend?

[PseudaSmart]

Thank you for the interest! I hope the results are as interesting to everyone else as they are to me.

Before going much further I must provide a disclaimer: My education and training do not include anything that ends in –ist(Biologist, Ichthyologist, Geneticist, etc). Therefore recommending resources is best left to the professionals who frequent this forum.
They have been very generous in providing suggestions throughout this 2 year project and I look forward to the continued support.

This accidental journey has been interesting. I have written a preface to the report on how this all came about and have sent a draft to Jools for input. The only comment I will make now is that it looks easy on TV!

Jim

[Borbi]

Jim,

Yours look almost identical to the group of L97s I imported directly from Brazil last year. They ranged from no spots, faded spots, to a lot of white polka dots. Some also have a slight wave pattern but not quite the same as the L65.

sounds like you had a couple of P. sp. "Alenquer" in the mix..

Cheers,
Sandor

[Borbi]

Hi,

With a small sample size (five total) the DNA testing shows no difference between L65s and L97s. The slight pattern difference could be part of the normal variance or region specific. I am trying to summarize all of the results from >12 different L-numbers but have not had time.

considering the results Leandro presented at the L-Number-Days, I believe one needs to be very careful with conclusions here and first establish the applicability of the chosen DNA testing method for the group to be investigated.

Cheers,
Sandor

[PseudaSmart]

If the presentations are available online from the convention a link would be greatly appreciated.

Since one of the experts was the exporter that I talked directly to, it is unlikely the fish were mixed. When Ingo was in the US in October he provided me with a P. Sp. Alenquer fin clipping.

For everything else please refer to my disclaimer. The results will be vetted prior to release.

Jim

[Borbi]

Hi,

If the presentations are available online from the convention a link would be greatly appreciated.

No, they are not available. The actual results I am referring to are not even detailed in the conference volume.
Bottom line (in the present context) would be: if you chose the "wrong" DNA method, you are not able to differentiate fish that are unanimously accepted to belong to different species (and if I remember it right, Leandro was surprised about some of their findings there, too).

Cheers,
Sandor