Sick Merodontus Tigrinus

[Redtailrob]

Hello all. Not sure if this is the place for this but I'm a little desparate. Ive kept tropicals 20+ yrs & in particular predatory Cats for about the last 10-12yrs & my Merodontus Tigrinus is sick & has me baffled. Showing no external signs of any infection, although has a slight lose of colour & one or two broken whiskers. This fish is swimming " off kilter" i.e. tilting slighty from side to side. Also displaying some minor blood streaking to the fins which is a common sign of distress. Hasn't eaten for abut 15 days, will come to my fingers as normal when I hold food items but then turns away at the last minute. Definately not a happen bunny. This fish is approx 24" + & housed in a 6' x4' 2.5' Tropical Pond (approx 380 -400 Uk Gallon)with a 30" L.Mammoratus & a 16" Knife fish.
They too are not feeding. temp 78 degrees, Ammonia <0.2 mg/l Nitrite 1.5-2.0 mg/l. pH 7.5 I was a little unhappy with these figures so carried out a 30% water change last night. Will clean the filters separately in the next couple of days & add some Peat granules to one of the cannisters to gradually lower the pH slighty.
This fish is my pride & joy & I've had for a number of years.
The Pond is heavily filtered with an FX5 / Eheim 2178 Thermo External & x 2 1500 l/ph Powerheads to provide additional aeration & water movement.30% Water changes are carried out every 5-8 Days.
I'd be grateful for any ideas as I'd be particulary upset to lose this stunning fish

[Martin S]

I think as you say Rob, the parameters are a concern, what's more important is why they are like that suddenly. I'd expect things to improve if you can get nitrite/ammonia down (hopefully no permanent damage has been done) but like you suggest, increase aeration, and probably don't worry about ph at the moment as too many changes in too short a time could make things worse.
Good luck, and hope the fish makes a quick and full recovery.
Martin

[saor alba]

Hi Rob would anything manage to seep/slip/fall into the pond,let us know how you get on
Some more water changes frequently and loads more air i wouldnt worry about ph at the moment personnally there in that just know best lets try figure out what couldve happened first,maybe a filter/filters have crashed on you putting some toxins into the water slowly over a few days

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hey Rob, sorry to hear of problems. What's baffling? Is there something I am missing? mg per liter = ppm. NO2 of 1.5-2.0 ppm will make almost all fish stressed and lacking any appetite. If it stopped eating 15 days ago, did you measure the water parameters then and in between then and now?

At the face value of the info given, sounds like your bio-filter crashed/kicked back. Why? Only you might try to figure out. Less likely, but perhaps a lot of waste got accumulated somewhere. Granted your test kit is a liquid one and has not expired.

[perclown]

Rob, Hope this might help: Continue with the water changes with conditioned water: aerated for 24 hrs (at least) to improve O2 and let CO2 from your source water to be vented. Lower the ph in the new water at 6.5, aiming to reach a ph of 7 after a few more 30% water changes.
First I´d concern about amonnia, so lowering pH to 7.0 or less will lower ammonia toxicity.
About Nitrite, you can see obvious healing symptoms if you continue with aerated new water because of the raised Oxygen content in the water. Amonnia and Nitrite will irritate your fish´s gills, lowering their ability to extract O2 from water.

Viktor is right, the main problem lies in your biological filter, while you take care of lightly rinsing your biomedia after unclogging the other filters and pumps, You must add bottled bacteria like "cycle" and remain checking ammonia and nitrite till you get them to near zero.

Your fish can be fed lightly so their contribution to bad water quality can be less (yes; I know! they are not feeding!. but as water quality improves so will their appetites)

[Redtailrob]

Thanks for your replies.
I carried out a 30% water change on Sunday & another smaller one last night. I also cleaned one of the filters completely & will add some "cycle" to mature it quickly.
I'll what a few days & then clean the other filter also.
Its been suggested to me elsewhere that this fish may have a Bacterial infection & i was considering treating with Myazin, but Im concerened with adding chemicals to the Pond if there is no need to.
I'll also check the water parameters again although may test kit is over a year old (Tablet form - covers Nitrite / Nitrate/pH/ Ammonia )
I'll take a sample to the LFS too.
Thoughts?

[Viktor Jarikov]

So, as I take it, the only test result we know is the one cited above.

What did the tests show after water changes and after filter cleaning?

I am not familiar with tests in a tablet form, so I cannot comment on that. I use API master kit liquid tests and I think they are good.

Whenever I have problems, I try to test as frequent as possible and reasonable.

Good idea to double check your test results with an LFS.

I am highly dubious that some desease coincided with the water turning bad. If anything, the desease may be a consequence. Unless you've been feeding heavily and they have not been eating and all this food is rotting somewhere, I don't see a plausible scenario where they got sick and at the same time or soon thereafter the water turned bad.

[saor alba]

I would agree if its bacterial then id say its secondary to what youve just now,is there somebody that can give you some mature filter stuff near by you preferably somebody you no that way you no there setup and health of there filters
How fish ow anyway ?????

[perclown]

Any antibiotic will wreak havoc your Biofilter or at least limit its capacity to regain "full power".
As all your fish stopped eating it´s sure an environmental problem, the signs of bacteria you mention are the result of poor water quality so improving it MUST make them more comfortable and able to cope with the lesions. Healthy fish have shown amazing recovery when their immune system isn´t compromised. The fact that your tigrinus still looks forward to you, is a sure sign he/she is healthy enough to withstand this crisis.

The wisest thing you have done is analyzing your situation and asking for external help, since this fish your "beloved one", anyone would panic and start turning everything around instead of finding the root of the problem and resolving it the smart way!

I´d really like to see some pictures, specially how are the tigrinus wound evolving. Wish you the best.

[Redtailrob]

At present this fish is improving.
All its colour has returned.
I'll keep you posted but thank you for any advice that has been received here.

[Martin S]

That's great news Rob, keep us updated.
Martin