How to solve ichthyophthirius multifiliis in L-numbers

[Jools]

All,

Maybe just a little bit lost in translation in all of this, especially around the use of the word nasty which I am sure (Miryam has gamely explained English is her second language) is just a slightly inaccurate choice of word.

Sharp, or perhaps blunt may be close to what was meant (see this!). Apologies for my British sense of humour and trying to be too clever.

I think Marc's advice and that of others has hopefully collectively helped and we also avoided going too deep into the chemistry.

Jools

[Marc van Arc]

I think Marc's advice and that of others has hopefully collectively helped

My advice hasn't helped at all imo as it was ignored/questioned.
But being called nasty/sharp/blunt for pointing this out is out of line.

[Jools]

Hmmm, that's not really the way I read it Marc. You will find you were first to suggest raising the temp to 30C and that this advice was followed. Look at all the 11th February posts in order and you see how it unravelled.

Anyway, the fishes are better, that's the main point.

Jools

[sojapat]

Hey Marc,Dont take it to heart , I get questioned about the use of salt on a regular basis .
Its a fantastic thing to have in the cupboard under the tank . Oldies but goodies .
What else raises the O2 and increases the immunity/mucus of the fish in one hit .
Coupled with other meds its a double whammy ..All is good?
ps apart from a ulcers but thats not for here unless treating carps ..he he .
People think that treating soft water fish salt is a no no ...how wrong.

[chris521957]

Sorry to hijack this post, but i came home from work tonight to see a couple of my (new) small angelfish swimming at the surface and showing signs of ich. On further observations i noticed 2 of my hypans( L340 and L201) with what looks like the beginnings of ich. My question is about the type of salt to be used. I have already upped the temp before coming on here to research this. i have also increased aeration in the tank to compensate for the higher temp. Should i use sea salt, as the wife always has this in the cupboard to use in cooking. I have kept and bred fish for over 30 years and had this illness about 3 times in tanks but managed to treat it with just raised temp. I have only just begun with plecs and they have cost me a bit of cash. I dont want to lose them or for the fish to suffer. So would you suggest seasalt or will ordinary table salt be ok? Cheers Chris.

[MatsP]

With the risk of raising all sorts of ugly monsters of people who don't understand chemistry very well but are able to repeat what they have read on the internet sometime in the past 18 years, I'll suggest you use whatever common salt you have available - table salt, seasalt, marine aquarium salt, iodized or not is fine - as long as it's not "low sodium", "garlic salt" or "herb salt" or anyting else "special", at a dose of 0.5g per liter of water in a first dose, then add another 0.5 gram 12 hours later.

--
Mats

[chris521957]

Thanks for that Mats. That was the best answer i have seen in this thread. Cheers Chris.

[mg7454]

I have used Seachem's ParaGuard at the full recommended dose, and (while keeping the temperature at a constant 80 F) did a 50% water change (using a gravel vac to clean the gravel) every-other day with success on sensitive cory catfish. Because the ParaGuard contains Malachite green, I got the best results adding it to the tank at night without lights on. Light de-activates Malachite green, so it does not stay in the water like other toxic medications.

If you decide to use temperature control as described in the article below, keep in mind that you should only raise or drop the temperature by two degrees F in a 24 hour period.

From an article by Ruth Francis-Floyd and Peggy Reed

The complete article can be found at this link:
http://www.fishgeeks.com/tropicalfishar ... 5/343.html

Special Considerations for Treatment of Pet Fish
A number of commercial preparations are available from pet stores which contain one or several of these agents. Temperature manipulation is also an effective way to control "Ich" in home aquariums [Article clipped here] and it is safer for some of the delicate species which are popular in community tanks. Water temperature can be gradually raised to 90°F, maintained there for 24 hours, and then gradually dropped to 70°F for 48 hours. The infective juveniles (tomites) will be killed while the water temperature is at 90°. When the temperature is dropped the adult organisms will fall off the fish and begin to reproduce. As the young begin to emerge 48 hours later, the temperature is again raised to 90°F, causing them to die. Repeating this process continuously (24 hours at 90° F followed by 48 hours at 70° F) for two weeks should control the disease. Cleaning the tank every second day will help remove cysts before they rupture and therefore help to prevent completion of the life cycle. If you decide to use temperature to control "Ich" in your home aquarium be sure that the type of fish in your tank can tolerate the temperature extremes involved.

[jac]

Just wanted to say I have use a medicine for my breeding/spawning Lnumbers/catfish in the past.
It's called FMC and it contains:
1 liter
35% / 40% vol. formalin (formaldehyde)
3.7 g Methylene blue crystals
3.7 grams of malachite green-oxylaat powder

Only lost some of the smallest L201 fry (they seem to be very sensitive to itch and showed the most signs of illness), all other fish responded well. Also no consequences after using the medicine as some people will tell you fish will become sterile after using Malachite green. No such evidence here.
You do need to follow the instructions very close and make sure you have a good oxigen supply, also cleaning the tank and filter after you have completed the treatment, do a large water change and use carbon to remove all of the remaining medicine. Shutting down the lighting and turn up the heather to 30 degrees also helps quite well during the treatment.

[papwalker]

>>Salt is always a good in combination with Metronidazol but not against Ich that not are a bacteria

Metronidazole is an anti-parasitic. It is very effective against flagellated protozoans such as ich, hence the name Flagyl.
Metronidazole is one of the rare examples of a drug developed against a parasite which has since gained broad use as an antibacterial agent.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC89320/

[Line]

Personally I always treat Ich with UV-C and raising the Temperature. Why UV-C? Ich has in its cycle a stadium of free swimming. In this stadium they infect the fishes and only in this stadium medical treatment is possible. Sadly it's only during some few hours.
They then search the light, so switching of the aquarium light, and placing a lamp nearby the inlet pump to the UV-C makes sense. Naturally one shouldn't place a filter before the UV-C.
Why raise the temperature?
Above 28°C Ich are no more able of reproducing. That is... there are some sorts of Ich, where you have to go above 32°C.
30-31°C though did always work very well for me.
All in all, this method takes 2-3 Weeks, to be on the safe side. I have practised this a couple of times. Never lost a fish or pleco then.

[papwalker]

Why UV-C? Ich has in its cycle a stadium of free swimming. In this stadium they infect the fishes and only in this stadium medical treatment is possible

Metronidazole kills the trophozoite whilst still attached to the fish. The free swimming theronts are only affected by chemicals in the column such as salt, formalin, dyes and Condy's crystals etc.

The effective dosing of metronidazole is superior in that you kill one organism before it becomes thousands. The issue, in my mind, is getting the therapeutic levels in fish that may not eat. Since it is effective against a range of bacteria as well, a reasonable case could be made for prophylactic treatment of new fish in a qt tank. An effective UV steriliser on the qt tank would be an effective adjunct to this.

There is however a potential caveat in that metronidazole may affect the flora present in the fishes gut. In fish processing lignin, cellulose etc that may be an issue.