Zebra death (seriously is everyone losing them?)

[Taratron]

I learned two lessons today.

1. Never ever assume another aquarist is telling the truth.

2. Do not leave only an afternoon to rearrange tanks.

For some time I've had my six zebra adults/large juvies in a 55 gallon tank, and after some research, decided to downsize them into a 29 with more caves and higher flow. I bought 2 used 29 gallon tanks from a fellow aquarist who told me they were not leakers, and because I had done business with him in the past, didn't ask to verify that.

I had the tanks for two months in storage and finally today got to set them up. Over the weekend I bleached, drained, and rinsed the tanks very well, let them sit out for two nights, and after seeing no leaking, put one inside. I drained out the zebra 55, set them up in the 29....and less than three hours later I saw the leak on the side.

CRAP.

Okay, drained the tank down again as I hurried and checked the other 29. When moving the fish over, one of the zebras did not respond. I have my first zebra loss and it isn't a good feeling.

So here's the pics. Can anyone soothe my panic and say I lost a male rather than a female? Do I have any females period?

Fingers are crossed that this other tank doesn't leak or have anything in it that bleach and rinsing wouldn't take care of. I know fish loss is common, but losing these other five would kill me.

[Taratron]

The survivors (fingers crossed).

[lmt6600]

First off, im sorry for your loss.
You are right, never trust any seller, i always reseal mine, if the seal looks good, i apply a thin layer on top of the old one. its been working out for me so far

Did you just say "Bleach"? "Over the weekend I bleached, drained, and rinsed the tanks very well".
Never, ever , ever ,ever ,ever bleach your tank, clean it with lemon or venegar. Maybe thats your problem right there.. bleach.


Good luck and hope you wont loose anymore.

[Taratron]

What is wrong with bleach? It was the main sterilizer we used at the zoo's aquarium and I carried that over to home use. As long as it's rinsed out well, the tank should be fine. Sterile and fine.

So far no the other five are hiding, but that is normal.

[Taratron]

Come morning, all five seem to be fine still. I hope it was just a one-off death.

My mom has offered to help pay for a few more zebras, so that said, this auction is on Aquabid: http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... 1357797006

Can anyone verify both genders in this shot? I know I can't pick out a certain fish but there is no point in ordering some zebras only to find they are all someone's extra males for sale.

[exasperatus2002]

Sorry for your loss. With older tanks wether its used or my own in storage I always reseal them. Sometimes you just cant be to safe.

[jac]

Sorry to hear about your loss...
To me they are all male.... Sorry again....

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Horrible feeling, and I'm sure that it wasn't the cause (although there doesn't seem to be any other obvious reason for your loss), but I'm with "IMT6600" on this one.

never ever bleach your tank, clean it with lemon or vinegar.

Sodium hypochlorite (NaCl2O2) bleach is a really powerful biocide, it is an efficient disinfectant because it is a very strong oxidizing agent. Fine for rinsing out Brine Shrimp containers, not so good for fish tanks. You can effectively rinse the tank after bleaching with a sodium thiosulphate containing water conditioner (chlorine ions dissolved in water are actually as hypochlorite 2(ClO-)), or just by leaving the tank full of water open to the air until all the Cl- ions have diffused along their concentration gradient, but the bleach is 99.99% of the time more dangerous than anything that was in the the tank.

If bleach was discovered tomorrow there would be absolutely no way that it would be sold to the general public. As an example sodium hypochlorite and ammonia react to form "chlorination of ammonia" compounds, first chloramine (NH2Cl), then dichloramine (NHCl2) and finally nitrogen trichloride (NCl3). These materials are very irritating to eyes and lungs and are toxic above certain concentrations. Another useful point to remember is that, if you add it to an acid, you can gas yourself with chlorine gas (I've tried this one and it isn't recommended).

cheers Darrel

[magdalo]

Although I agree that bleach is a very powerful disinfectant and that it should not be used to cleanse fish tanks, I somewhat disagree that this is the main reason for the zebra's demise. Based on the fact that five out of six survived, I think bleach is not the mere culprit. If it were the case, short-term exposure to such agent would have completely eradicated the colony.
IMO, the zebra that perished was the weakest among the group. Although there was no evident physical trauma, it could have been severely stressed by the abrupt transfer to another tank. Years ago, the same incident happened to me. I transferred a colony of L270s to another tank because of leakage. Within an hour, 2 out of 8 Hypans died. Based on this, I started to believe that Hypans are more sensitive and easily stressed compared to others such as Pseudas and Panaques.

[Taratron]

jac, which are all males: mine, or in the auction posted?

It is damn frustrating because three of these fish survived a year under the care of someone who kept them in an unheated tank with African cichlid fry, and the other three I had shipped over.

[plecoboy]

I would have left them in the 55 gallon. A 29 is too small IMO. A 55 gives more space for competing males as well as future fry. I have 7 in a 55 gallon and think it might be a little cramped.

[Taratron]

Thanks, plecoboy. Was already regretting the move because of the stress it caused this fish. But I am not sure if moving them back right now will be safe. I'd rather wait a while and see if I can set up another 55 or a 40 breeder. Can anyone hazard a guess if fry are even a worry, IE, do I have all males?

[magdalo]

Well, transfering them again to another tank too soon would definitely stress them further more. You might risk losing another zebra. Relax and try to let them settle in. Besides, it looks like not a single one of them is gravid and ready to spawn. No sense of urgency. Good luck.

[racoll]

I use bleach, but I am very careful to use a dechlorinating water conditioner and rinse many times, as Darrel mentioned.

I was doing some research experiments where I had to keep many danios in a sterilised bucket. I used strong bleach (1.25%), but never had any problems after dechlorinating and rinsing thoroughly.

[Taratron]

My dechlor of choice is Prime. And I used a full capful for the first tank setup.

[pleco_breeder]

I'm going to go against the grain on this one. I've used bleach in the fish room daily, for years, and have only had one major incident. That was due to my own negligence, and not the chemical being used. You're not going to beat it for sterilizing, but it is definitely necessary to make sure it's removed before using in a tank. Normally, just a couple days of drying will neutralize it.

Larry

[RickE]

I've used bleach routinely in the past both commercially and domestically and always without problems as long as it is well rinsed out. One thing that is very important however is to use bleach that does not contain lots of additives, perfumes, etc.

[jac]

jac, which are all males: mine, or in the auction posted?

It is damn frustrating because three of these fish survived a year under the care of someone who kept them in an unheated tank with African cichlid fry, and the other three I had shipped over.

I was referring to your 5 fish. I took a look at the link but I can only see a list of all kinds of fish been sold. I don't know which L46 fish your looking at there?

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'm going to go against the grain on this one. I've used bleach in the fish room daily, for years, and have only had one major incident. That was due to my own negligence, and not the chemical being used. You're not going to beat it for sterilizing, but it is definitely necessary to make sure it's removed before using in a tank. Normally, just a couple days of drying will neutralize it.

This really is the crux of the issue for me, it is the same argument as using CO2 in a planted tank, or generating nuclear electricity. Bleach is an extremely effective biocide and managed in the appropriate manner entirely safe, CO2 aids plant growth at levels that are fish safe and a nuclear reactor is an extremely efficient way of generating safe electricity via a steam turbine.

They all have a downside, and that is that if you don't follow the rules, or you make a mistake, or some unforseeable event occurs (Tsunami, CO2 dump, a distracted moment whilst tank cleaning) they can rapidly become lethal. Even if there is a very low probability of an event occurring if you wait long enough it will happen.

I can find quite enough ways of accidently killing my fish without adding another one.

The question I would ask is

is the probability of the bleach evetually causing fish death higher than the probability of fish death if you don't sterilise?

and I'm pretty sure that for me if I'm the user the bleach is more dangerous than the dirty tank.

cheers Darrel

[pleco_breeder]

I'll exemplify the caveat by giving my "horror story". I'm rather comfortable around the use of chemicals. I use several potentially unsafe mixtures in the fish room with no ill effect because there are safeguards in place to prevent accidental spills. At any given point, permanganate, bleach, and hydrochloric acid are in use somewhere in the room just to name a couple.

I use common household water filter equipment on all my central systems. I normally get 3-7 days use from each 25 micron "yarn" cartridge depending on the bio load. Once the flow starts to slow, I exchange them for a clean cartridge, spray all the exterior waste from them, and soak the used cartridge in a 25% bleach solution for 48 hours. They are then sprayed again, and left to dry for 3-4 days.

I got lax with this procedure once and pulled a cartridge for use which had only dried for 1-2 days. I left the fish room for a bit to respond to emails. By the time I got back into the fish room, maybe 20 minutes later, I had lost hundreds of Ancistrus fry. The adults were stressed, but pulled through the ordeal. However, the experience was enough that I now use an extra cartridge in the rotation to insure they've had more than sufficient drying time.

I don't consider this as much of a flaw in the technique as much as human error.

Larry

[ceh]

it is bad idea to put fish in so young aquarium i let my aquariums run 1-2 months before i put som fish in it ..
and if is fish like l 46 it can go only in aquarium who is 100% safe and running like year or more