Baby RTC, shedding slime etc but eating well.

[Mreque]

Hey, Is there anyone with expertise on Red Tailed Catfish ?

My RTC is about 12cm ( Just a baby ) Had him for a month and he has been doing the same thing since i got him.
Shedding slime all over he´s body once/twice a day, and "Breathing" kind of heavy, not in the i get no oxygen way but like its stress related.
He´s tiny and i held him in a small tank at first to feed him up a bit while i resiliconed the 155 gallon. ( Same issue here ) No change when i put him in the bigger tank.

PH 8,3 Is this a problem with RTC ?
He is eating like a pig.
No2 is fine.
Temp is 25.5 Celcius.
Oxygen levels are good since i cant hardly see the other fish moving their gills. They are comfortable, 1x Jack dempsey 1x Crincichla Alta or saxi 4x clown loaches, 2x Gibbiceps 1x Common pleco. 1x freshwater murana and one TSN that is doing well after a "surgery" where we removed like 60+ English seagravel stones from he´s belly, Altho he is now completely white, with no pigmentation what so ever ( Also eating and growing like a pig )

Is there anyone that had the same RTC problem ? Also its fine sand + mangoove in the tank with a 3500L/h Fluval fx5 cannister.

i want to fix this so i can watch him grow healthy!

[Mreque]

i am atm preforming a 40% water change, and will do for the next 5 days to see if it improves.

i guess you could say that pooring tap water right into the tank isnt wery good, but thats what i do, No chlorine or what its called, Well water. Drilled at our house.
The temperature drops 1 celcius and the water has the same PH levels, saltinity etc etc.

Tips are welcome tho.

[Viktor Jarikov]

pH is at the highest recommended extreme. Usually 8.2 is the highest. I'd not blame the pH alone but there could be other factors that, when combined with the high pH, create inadequate conditions. I don't have enough knowledge to tell you which factors, such as salinity, hardness, trace components in the water, like metals or heavy metals, pesticides/herbicides and other agricultural toxins...

In other words, what I am saying is that it is usually good to have a safety cusion.

Diet matters too and can have its impact. I've had semi-mysterious RTC problems too: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... lit=+throw

Most keepers say RTCs are tough as nails. That was not my experience but mine looks to be quite isolated, atypical.

You never quote NH3 in your posts but only NO2. If you don't measure NH3, that'd be a good place and time to start. Also NO3 (which may be in your well water, as well as NH3/NH4+).

I do understand from your other thread that you drink this well water, so it cannot be that bad... but with everything that was stated so far, I do not yet see what else to possibly blame.

I don't think your fish problems have anything to do with how you conduct your WCs.

[MeglaAlex]

Your P.H. IS WICKED HIGH!!!!
Please lower it, this could be the cause.
With the P.H. that high means the Ammonia must be sky rocketed.
I suggest doing about a 50 percent water change. Add some baking powder to bring the P.H. down. Not a lot of baking powder, maybe like 6-7 tablespoons would bring it to 7.4. Then add some kosher salt.
RTC are generally tough, but with a ph that a high, I can only imagine the ammonia is the culprit for the slimecoat.
SO like I said do a 50 percent water change, add a small amount of baking powder, and salt. Kosher salt is generally not needed, but I find that it helps fish heal alot better than other meds.
*Baking powder- to lower ph., baking soda- to higher ph. Keep that footnote.

[Mreque]

Running at PH 7,5 atm, Hopefully i can maintain this level. But Baking powder and baking soda ? Im not sure what you mean, both of them raise the PH levels dont they ?
I have been trying Fosfates ( waterlife 6.5 buffer Lowers or raises PH to 6,5.. Without any progress, it raises to 8ish again, But i have alot of Mangove roots in now so it will probably go down towards 6-6,5.. Hopefully this + some more water changes will make it stop, And maby, my TSN could get he´s colours back. Dont think he will since he has no sign of pigmentation left.

No other fish affected still.

[MeglaAlex]

Running at PH 7,5 atm, Hopefully i can maintain this level. But Baking powder and baking soda ? Im not sure what you mean, both of them raise the PH levels dont they ?
I have been trying Fosfates ( waterlife 6.5 buffer Lowers or raises PH to 6,5.. Without any progress, it raises to 8ish again, But i have alot of Mangove roots in now so it will probably go down towards 6-6,5.. Hopefully this + some more water changes will make it stop, And maby, my TSN could get he´s colours back. Dont think he will since he has no sign of pigmentation left.

No other fish affected still.

No. Baking soda rises ph and Baking Powder lowers PH.
Two different items.

[Scleropages]

Have you tested the pH, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates of your well water? If so, are those levels similar or different than the levels in your tank?

The wood in your tank should slowly leach out tannins which will help to lower the tank's pH.

I would not recommend trying to lower your tank's pH with baking powder. Are you able to collect rainwater? That is a great way to get naturally RO'd water, which may help you get your tank's pH closer to neutral.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I would not recommend trying to lower your tank's pH with baking powder.

What's that?? Yeast?

Are you able to collect rainwater? That is a great way to get naturally RO'd water, which may help you get your tank's pH closer to neutral.

Superb suggestion, just make sure the rain water has no contact with bad stuff, like tar, resins, silicon with anti-molding agents, iron/rust etc. Glues, asphalt, etc. can leach bad stuff and contaminate the water. Even aluminum (common gutter material) is probably no good. Copper? Is copper ok? Many people have copper pipes in their houses... Anyone knows?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Your P.H. IS WICKED HIGH!!!!
Please lower it, this could be the cause.
With the P.H. that high means the Ammonia must be sky rocketed.

Not necessarily at all. Lake Tanganyika's ammonia is zero but pH is 8.0-8.5. There is no one-way link between pH and ammonia.

[Bas Pels]

Copper? Is copper ok? Many people have copper pipes in their houses... Anyone knows?

a little bit of copper is not harmfull

Concentration up to 10 ppm are acceptable, but a tap which is used only once a week will deliver water with much more water. However, if you flush the first bucket, the rest will be OK

For a copper roof the same applys.

[Scleropages]

I would not recommend trying to lower your tank's pH with baking powder.

What's that?? Yeast?

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/foodchemi ... baking.htm

I have no problem with adding some baking soda in order to raise pH--especially in emergency situations with my soft water, pH 6.5 riverine tank that has my Panaque in it. As they eat the wood, the pH sometimes nosedives in a hurry. When I see the Panaque start hanging out near the surface, I know I need to check the pH and usually add baking soda in a hurry.

However, I just don't see emergency situations where the pH rapidly rises, in my experience. As such, if my aquarium(s) require(s) soft, pH 6.5-7.0 water, it makes much more sense for me to start with water in that range, rather than take hard, pH 8.0+ water and try to change it. As I said, rainwater will basically be in that soft pH 6.5 range. Nature's RO. I've been able to keep a 44gal rubbermaid garbage can filled for the past year with one of the drain pipes from my house's gutters. It works great for supplying water for my planted tanks and 125gal riverine tank. The tetras in my planted tank go crazy after water changes--all that fresh rain water must feel great.

Thinking about the OP, does anyone think there could be a chance of bacterial infection? The fish has had the slime for 1 month now, correct? Does that length of time rule out bacterial infections?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Good to get reassurance. Thanks, Scleropages.

I too have been contemplating collecting rain water from my gutters for a long while but have always been afraid of what that water picks up on the way from the asphalt shingle roof to a storage vessel, especially after having repaired a few gutters myself and having used things like galvanized screws and random silicone and having seen that the gutters and the parts often have some grease/lubricants on them.

Also, all my gutters are aluminum. When I was researching why there exist no aluminum tanks, I appear to have found that it is better to keep aluminum and fish tanks separate. Even relativey limited Al exposure can kill - some keepers made aluminum covers for their fish tanks and had big problems (splashing + condensation led to Al contamination of the tank water -> sick and dead fish).

Hence, my "theoretical" hesitation. Good to see that practice can be different.

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I think rain-water is a good option for a lot of people. I've used rain-water without any problem since the 1970's, and I would recommend it. If you are worried about contamination you can carbon filter it before use. Personally I use this method of "water testing" (from <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... 2&p=250706>)

I use a simpler technique, the "Daphnia bioassay". This just means you have Daphnia in your water butt, as long as the water has swimming Daphnia it is good to go. I didn't invent this method, it is actually one used by the water industry. <http://www.ibridgenetwork.org/warf/daph ... -disrupter> & <http://ei.cornell.edu/toxicology/bioassays/daphnia/>.

Also, all my gutters are aluminum. When I was researching why there exist no aluminum tanks, I appear to have found that it is better to keep aluminum and fish tanks separate. Even relatively limited Al exposure can kill

You would need re-assurance from some-one who actually knows, but I think you are probably all right with aluminium gutters, because they are exposed to the air there will be a layer of chemically inert Al2O3 ("aluminium oxide" or alumina) on the gutter that will stop much contamination of the rain-water.

Aluminium (Al) itself is highly reactive, and it is the very thin layer (5nm) layer aluminium oxide that is responsible for its resistance to weathering. Oxide forms very rapidly on any exposed (to the air) aluminium surface.

cheers Darrel

[Viktor Jarikov]

Here is more info on aluminum from my thread on the possibility of making an aluminum tank: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =+aluminum

[Mreque]

Well aquariums with aluminum framing is very common and it does get in contact with the water. Atleast in swe its wery common.. And light fixtures made in aluminum the condensed water drips back into the aquarium from...
Even if this wasnt slightly related to the topic.

Had a PH of 7.5 for a few days KH 5. Stopped feeding and did some large water changes...

No improvement. He seems stressed and is still shedding slime coat and breathing a bit heavy. Other fish in the tank are just fine and wery ferocious for food.
Carbon in the filter since the start, and ammonia and no3 should be close to 0 since the waterchanges and no feeding. Tho other fish should be affected if the Ammonia was sky rocketing.. I do have a PH 8,2 in my tap water.

So.. Our TSN Is fine, even if he has no colours. he is perfectly healthy..
I find it strange that ondly one of the fish has symptoms. If my Ammonia or No3 would be high..

So, Is there anything that RTC Ondly suffers from and other fish dosnt get bothered.

Note: Some fish twich with their fin ( The larger one running across their back ) Sometimes.

Ideas ?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Ok, so what else is new? (Sarcasm) Another disagreement... now on the effect of aluminum. Sorry, it may appear of tangenial importance here but collecting rain water is not at all.

There is nothing I know of that'd bother an RTC and not TSN.

[Mreque]

Hey again, i have solved the problem. With amazing results! I got myself a water conditioner called Easy-Life LFM ( Liquid Filter Media ) did as instructed.
Woala, The RTC is looking beautiful and well. AND, even ate a few Carnovour pellets. FOR THE FIRST TIME!

Amazing product that i highly recommend to everyone, Even got my other fish looking better and now i have 0 no zero problems!

Was probably something in my well-water that was irritating for the fish, irons or chemicals ? Anyway its all good now. TSN is still colourless but looking well.

Uploading a pic of my Superwhite TSN. haha =D Thnx for replys

[unblinded]

Your TSN looks awesome, thanks for sharing the pic. He looks healthier than the last pic you snapped. Good to hear you got it figured out.

[Birger]

Most interested to hear if the fish turns back to original coloration.

Birger

[Mreque]

Yeah dont know if he will, Eating well, swimming around all day and lurking on the colorfull Clown Loaches trying to swallow them every now and then but nothing serious.

I think he will stay Platinum, who knows. i would like for the colour to come back tho.. I will post pics ofc, when or if it changes and some updates here and there

Ty.

[necrocanis]

Good to hear your problems with the rtc are over. As for the TSN I have seen some in the past that seemed to change colors based on water temp? Looks crazy but awesome. I had my large RTC x TSN hybrid a few years back lose part of his coloration, but came back after the winter.