LED floods

[coelacanth]

We've had a play around with LED spots and we're fairly happy with them (some of the LED units sold specifically for aquarium use have been nothing short of awful), we're now looking at these http://www.mgc-lighting.com/downloads/s ... ies-5500k/

Anyone got any good/bad/indifferent comments to make?

Pete

[racoll]

I've been experimenting with DIY LEDs, also. I posted about it here. I'm very pleased with the result.

[coelacanth]

Those look like the Megaman PAR16 7W jobs we've been using for some months, they're very nice lamps for up to 24" depth. One had to go back almost straight away as it was faulty, but it was replaced without quibble and they've done nicely ever since. Looking at ramping up the power now, apparently they're adequate replacements for Metal Halide without the hideous power consumption and we need to get down through over 3ft of water.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Nice job Rupert in that thread too.

They are nice and "green". Fiscally thinking though, I am under an impression that it will take over 10 years (of average household) use to reach a break-even point in terms of the initial investment vs. lower electric bill.

As the coating technology evolves and the worldwide production increases, the price hopefully will drop to more manageable and the break-even time will shorten.

Compact fluorescent, I naively think, is the way to go for me. And even with those, only certain sizes and tube designs, like the 13 W (60 W incandescent equivalent) and 23 W (100 W equivalent), which are ~$1.2 per bulb. Most other specalty CFLs are awful as far as the price goes. I mean a 65 W (equivalent) CFL flood, 2 pack for $13-$16?

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Compact fluorescent, I naively think, is the way to go for me.

You get much more "bang for your buck" with linear fluorescents T5, the more turns a fluorescent tube has the less efficient it is. Also with linear tubes the electronic control gear is in the fitting, rather than in the bottom of the bulb (like it is with a CFL) which makes them much more long lasting.

Linear T2 tubes/fittings would potentially be better than T5, but they are difficult to get in the UK so I've no experience of them. I think there is a post in which Larry (Apistomaster) says he has been using them. Found it <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... nt#p225693>

cheers Darrel

[Viktor Jarikov]

Agreed but it is hard to shape the light of a multi-foot linear bulb into a cone, which is what the OP and Racoll are trying to accomplish.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Agreed but it is hard to shape the light of a multi-foot linear bulb into a cone, which is what the OP and Racoll are trying to accomplish.

Thanks Viktor, that hadn't occurred to me. Bearing that in mind I'd probably go for a LED fitting like Racoll's. I'd prefer MR16 (12V. DC) to GU10 (230V AC for us) as they safer near water, but either would do.

cheers Darrel

[Viktor Jarikov]

Can you please explain why, Darrel, you'd go with a commercial or DIY flood LED and not a flood CFL? Easthetics is very much on the LED side, I think, but is there anything else?

[racoll]

Those look like the Megaman PAR16 7W jobs we've been using for some months, they're very nice lamps for up to 24" depth.

You sound like a man who knows his light bulbs! Actually, though, they were the Kosnic 7W GU10 LED daylight bulb. See here.

At £15 each, they're not cheap, and as you say Viktor, they may take a while to pay for themselves, but in terms of aesthetics they look fantastic--just like halides but without the heat!

Oh, and thanks for pointing out the safety aspects Darrel. That's definitely something to consider with the DIY options.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF700T using Tapatalk 2

[dw1305]

Hi all,

thanks for pointing out the safety aspects Darrel. That's definitely something to consider with the DIY options.

I don't think it is an issue with wall mounted lights like yours, but it could be with a fitting that sat on the tank.

What I haven't been able to find out is if the 12V lights use less electric than the mains powered GU10, they should (there is a small transformer in each GU10 base, so they run on 12V AC) but I don't how efficient the LED drivers (which transform 230V. AC to 12V. DC) are.

Can you please explain why, Darrel, you'd go with a commercial or DIY flood LED and not a flood CFL?

Because LEDS are going to give you cheaper running costs long term, we had some 125W CFL growlights in the glasshouse, these were OK, but they didn't have a very long life at about £25 each time.

Something like a 16W LED floodlight for £55 ish has got to be a better option.

cheers Darrel

[Viktor Jarikov]

Because LEDS are going to give you cheaper running costs long term, we had some 125W CFL growlights in the glasshouse, these were OK, but they didn't have a very long life at about £25 each time.

Something like a 16W LED floodlight for £55 ish has got to be a better option.

LEDs are normally quoted at 30,000 h (3.5 years) of running time. CFLs 8,000-10,000 h. Are you referring to this difference or that the electronics driving a LED is more robust than that driving a CFL?

I have seen no data/statistics but it appears to me that CFL's premature failure is often a result of the electronics.

[dw1305]

Hi all,

LEDs are normally quoted at 30,000 h (3.5 years) of running time. CFLs 8,000-10,000 h. Are you referring to this difference or that the electronics driving a LED is more robust than that driving a CFL? I have seen no data/statistics but it appears to me that CFL's premature failure is often a result of the electronics.

Both really, the life of the LED should be at least as long as quoted with high lumen maintenance. The CFL we had were on a "12 hour day", so even with relatively few switches on and off I wasn't getting much more than a year out of them. The plants grew as well under them as they had done under 400W SON-T lights, although you need 2 x 250W to cover the same area as one 400W HPS lamp. If I bought them again I wouldn't buy 250W as they are quite bulky and fragile, I wouldn't got bigger than 125W. The reflectors I used were the parabolic "Sun Mate Grow CFL Reflector".

My suspicion would be that the electronics in the base of all lamps are less robust than for an external driver/transformer.

cheers Darrel

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks, Darrel. 12 h a day for a year is only 4370 h. They should have lasted ~2x longer according to manufacturer's claims/ads.

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Viktor some of them just failed, which I assume is an electronic problem, and others broke at the base, they definitely weren't knocked at all (they are over glasshouse staging in luminaires), so I assume that the twisting of the tube during the manufacturing process cause stresses in the glass.

I've found that linear T5 and single turn 2 pin PL2 tubes (55W) last a lot longer than the more complex shaped ones.

cheers Darrel

[2wheelsx2]

I've had nothing but problems with the power compacts with melted housings and cooked ballasts. Even the receptacles for the bulbs cracked in one case. I quickly moved away from these to T5 and then T5HO and now almost all my tanks are running LED's. I think the PC's generate way too much heat for those compact housings and the plastic just breaks down.

[racoll]

I've had nothing but problems with the power compacts with melted housings and cooked ballasts. Even the receptacles for the bulbs cracked in one case.... I think the PC's generate way too much heat for those compact housings and the plastic just breaks down.

Yup, same with me. Barely lasted six months.

[matti2uude]

I've had nothing but problems with the power compacts with melted housings and cooked ballasts. Even the receptacles for the bulbs cracked in one case. I quickly moved away from these to T5 and then T5HO and now almost all my tanks are running LED's. I think the PC's generate way too much heat for those compact housings and the plastic just breaks down.

What LEDs are you using? I have a double bright and its far from bright. I'm thinking about trying the Finnex.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I may be mistaken but I think he is talking CFL and FL.

I can only guess what PC is... might be power circuit? After much deliberation, I discarded Personal Computer and Planet Catfish.

[2wheelsx2]

What LEDs are you using? I have a double bright and its far from bright. I'm thinking about trying the Finnex.

I am using a set of twin strips of AquaRay GroBeam 500 on my 125. I had them with a pair of Double Brights, but when my custom canopy was finished, I added 3 of the Panorama Pro Freshwater Modules I got from Modularled.ca. He's out of Red Deer, Alberta and mostly sells to reefers. I love the Panoramas and will likely move to replace all the T5HO in my 100 gallon square discus tank with them also. Here's what the 125 looks like.

I may be mistaken but I think he is talking CFL and FL.

I can only guess what PC is... might be power circuit? After much deliberation, I discarded Personal Computer and Planet Catfish.

Right, I was talking about Power compacts and not the spiral compact fluorescents. Sorry for the confusion.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks, mate! What's the difference? Pardon my ignorance - I have never heard of Power Compact Fuorescent Lights.

[2wheelsx2]

Thanks, mate! What's the difference? Pardon my ignorance - I have never heard of Power Compact Fuorescent Lights.

These: http://www.marinedepot.com/lighting_pow ... bs-ap.html

The concerns is that these have way too much restrike for them to be efficient. And the big minus is that they're not cheap either.

[Viktor Jarikov]

A-ah, the 32 W 4-pin ones. I actually have a fixture with two of them in one bathroom. Never knew they were called that. Just had to replace both bulbs - barely found one local store that carries them - they wanted $17 a bulb, settled for $20 for two. They said they sell a handful a year.

What's a restrike? (Re)ignition? I naively thought they should be about as efficient as any other normal, linear-tube FL lights and as long-lived too. No? If no, who'd buy them at all? Are they supposed to be the intermediate step in between long-tube FL and spiral CFL?

[2wheelsx2]

I think in the house where the enclosures are bigger they are fine, but in an aquarium fixture, there is not venting and not enough space. They came out about the same time as the compact fluorescents I believe, in an effort to pack in as much light in as small a space as possible for high tech planted tanks and for reefers to save money from MH lights (somewhat). The problem is their horrible inefficiency compared to T5HO or even T5NO with individual efficient refectors.

Restrike is when the light emitted from the tube hits the bulb, instead of lighting the intended object. You can see in a tube that wide, even with reflectors, a lot of the lights is wasted as it's blocked by the tube itself. One of the reasons why they went out of favour quickly and everyone went to T5's, and then now to LED's. Plus, as you noted, the bulbs are extremely expensive. In the 4 years that I ran the 65w 24" PC bulb in my Coralife fixture, replacing the tube 4 times, and the ballast once, I could have bought myself some pretty swanky LED fixtures, if they had been around. I'm now running a 3w LED fixture on the same tank, although I'm no longer injecting CO2 and growing many plants, as I got a new tank with an AquaRay mini tile for the plant focus and made that tank a pleco fry growout tank with a few simple plants. Saving me tons of $.

[coelacanth]

Well, the floods are now on order, for aquaria where plant growth isn't a priority they might be just the job. Hate messing around with big MH fittings.