Pimelodus pictus in a 70 gallon

[phantomlink]

Right now I have a Pictus and a Platydoras armatulus ( Striped Raphael ) in my 20 gallon while they're babies. I had another Pictus and they swam around all day chasing each other but he died not long ago. I have the chance of getting a 70 gallon tank for pretty cheap and I want him to have some friends. I was wondering how many I can get in the 70 gallon ( 48x18x18 ) without overcrowding it? I originally wanted to put the Pictus in my 125 gallon but he will just end up eating all the small fish when he gets large enough

Thanks so much

[Viktor Jarikov]

Welcome! Pictus truly thrive and behave the best and are most spectacular in groups. That 70 gal may be able to handle a dozen adults (~6" TL).

They are not aggressive predators but if a fish fits in their mouth, they will most likely eat it, sooner or later.

[phantomlink]

I was planning on doing 6 or so for that tank, Im just wondering what else I could put in there thats big enough they wont eat, and make the tank look decent when/if the pictus decide to hide in the caves. I know they need the room to swim around, and my filter will be able to handle the bioload easily from a few catfish so in theory unless Im wrong I should be able to "overstock" the tank

[Martin S]

I would not consider overstocking as pictus can be quite greedy feeders, so you will need to ensure there is sufficient food, such as sinking pellets, for them. I'd suggest maybe a decent size shoal of adult Scissortails (

Rasbora trilineata

), or if you wanted to go smaller, then the larger bodied tetras such as

Hyphessobrycon columbianus

(Columbian Tetra) or Hyphessobrycon megalopterus (Black Phantom tetras) would almost definitely be fine.
Hope this helps
Martin

[phantomlink]

I guess I shouldnt have used the term overstock, im not sure if it technically is or not because I know they dont produce as much waste as a pleco, and a few five inch fish in a 48 inch long tank is enough room to swim and play. I just wanted something else for when they're hiding. I'll look up those species

Edit: I looked up the black phantom tetra, they only grow to be about 2 inches. Is this large enough to not fit in an older catfish's mouth? If so I might be able to move these guys with my harlequin, they get the same size

[Martin S]

They should be fine as although only 2", they are deep bodied, so very difficult for a 6" fish to fit them in. I'd suggest maybe the larger Columbian tetras if you have any such concerns. Alternatively you could think about a group of peaceful cichlids, although there is always issues if/when they decode to pair off and breed. As long as there are plenty of places to hide, for both the catfish and cichlids if you chose them, then you should be fine.
Martin

[Jools]

How about some nice Keyhole cichlids or Festivums. Failing that, how about rainbowfish?

On the note about the waste plecos produce, yes in terms of mass, but I am not certain I'd assume, inch for inch, a pictus has any less negative affect on water quality.

Jools

[bunce]

I have three spotted pictus in my 125 gallon Oscar tank and to be honest i don't think i would go with more then that. I spend a fair amount of time in front of my tank and let me tell you what I've learned. These 3 guys were really shy when i bought them. I had just a few rocks in my tank. Two would pick on one and evict him from there little spot. As I've added more rocks and driftwood into the tank these guys have established there own territories. They each have about 2 feet of the bottom of the tank to themselves. While prowling for food one will encroach on the others territory and a wick squrmish will follow with the invader being quickly run off. That's most of the time. At other times these guys will hang out together but not for long amounts of time. Every once in a while the two biggest (who's territories happen to be right next to each other) will this dance like thing. Looks like they are wanting to spawn but i doubt that.

Everyone says get 5 or more but from my observation with these guys in a 6ft tank i would hesitate to get anymore. On another note, once i finally got all the driftwood and rocks in the tank and they have plenty of caves and wood to make a dash for, these guys are active. All day active prowling there turf. Hope this helps

[Richard B]

Pictus behave differently when in different group sizes

One of the MA branches near me has a 6 foot sump tank with very little decor in & about 40 adult pictus. They all shoal together except when food is added & then they go into a frenzy. There is no discernable pecking order. With only 3 in a tank there is a specific hierarchy & the weakest fish may suffer. With a group of 6-8 it should prevent more dominant fish overwhelming any weaker individuals

[phantomlink]

Thanks for the info. I got him two friends yesterday and he's just hiding in the corner instead of swimming around the tank like he used to. I'm working on cycling their 70 gallon as quickly as I can so they will have room to spare and find their own homes. These three were all that I could find within a two hour radius, I'll have to custom order at the fish store for 3 more

[bunce]

With only 3 in a tank there is a specific hierarchy & the weakest fish may suffer. With a group of 6-8 it should prevent more dominant fish overwhelming any weaker individuals[/quote]

That may be the case but i have not experienced that in my tank. Yes there is a pecking order but no one is overwhelmed. And they are very happy, in great condition and well fed. I don't believe it is fair to any fish to be dumped in numbers into a tank. I have a 6 x 18 x 18 tank with 8 fish. And i have been looking for a 300 gallon to put the Oscars and acara into within the year. Even 6 pictus in a 70 gallon in my opinion would be getting to the verge of overstocked.

Although i will sonceday my definition of over stocked is different to most people. Just remember that these fish once lived in vast bodies of water and no matter how big your tank is its still just a puddle of water compared to were they came from.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I like your ideas and what you are doing.

One thing I'd mention though is that normally overstocking is defined by having fish in discomfort (to the best that we can tell) either because of the insufficient hiding/swimming/playing/etc. space or, far, far more commonly, insufficient bio-filtration (and sometimes water changes).

Note that I am not talking about placing too big a fish into too small a tank - that's a different matter (what I'd call an improper stocking, not overstocking), albeit both constitute what we refer to as human fish housing.

Your definition is highly likable educationally speaking but IMO idealistic. If one goes by that, they cannot put any fish into any tank or even in a pond. Besides, if one looks very closely, there is literally nothing that is natural for a fish in a fish tank, not just the amount of space.

[bunce]

Agreed..but either way we look at were going to keep our fishes. I guess you can look at in the aspect of keeping a rottweiler in a studio apartment. Bc you love rotweilers would you then get 3? Same theory kinda. I know if i was a fish i would be more comfortable in an aquarium that was less crowded then one that is "stocked" according to the recommend levels and filtration.

My tank has plenty of activity with just 8 fish without saying i can keep an easy 15 or 20 fish in out. Maybe just my preference but i cringe when i see tanks big and small with to many fish. Just my opionion but i do agree with you

[Viktor Jarikov]

you better make it a point not to ever look at the photos of my tanks

I don't think we are in a qualitative disagreement, just some quantitative differences and the words we use to express them, which is natural - no two people should be the same. Funny, we here often use the dog or a horse analogy to explain to some why they cannot keep say a 2' RTC in a 200 gal tank (do a search for Mastino neapolitano or Clydesdale, if interested ) - but that's about what I called above the improper stocking.

[bunce]

Haha to each his own bud. But yes even one rtc is to big for a 200 gallon tank