S.angelica not settling in

[9'ofglass]

I recently bought a S.angelica, approx. 13cm in length. He is with 12 P.interruptus Congo Tetra (2cm) and 6 Cteopoma acutirostre (2cm) in a 5' home-build 480L tank, cycled and running for about a month. All water parameters good; the water is alkaline and hard (7.8 and 18-20 dgH), temperature 23C. The tank is intentionally poorly lit with 10W LED, scoped with a lot of mopani, anubias and java fern.
The angelica was in the LFS for several years and has probably spent most of its time therefore in a small 30-40cm tank with one bit of wood to hide under. He now has a huge comparitive area and seems not to be able to settle, having eaten nothing since he went in (12 days ago). He looked very well fed when I bought him with a big belly; it is still large which puzzles me, since I have been removing catfish pellet (King British), frozen cockle and algae wafer every morning...food for him going in just before lights out.
Behaviour-wise, he started by finding an area behind mopani where I have seen little of him; for the last two days he has been more visible, resting through the day behind one of the filter inlet pipes. He otherwise looks healthy.
I have had a little local feedback from LFS keeper who is a helpful, knowledgeable fellow who says that I shouldn't be too worried as mature cats may take a while to settle, but I would like a little expert advice from here - would much appreciate any help or advice please

[Richard B]

A fish that size could go comfortably without food for a few weeks, so no worries on that score.

If the water is DEFINATELY all good then it is indeed just taking time to adjust. (any chance of a tank photo & a fish photo?)

If it had been in a particular set-up for a long period prior to the move it may not appreciate the change at this 'early' stage.

[Viktor Jarikov]

Welcome to the forum, 9'ofglass! Nicely put question. Richard covered it pretty good IMO. It does not always but it can take even 2-3 weeks to adjust, so no worries.

The fact that the fish remains full-bellied may mean that this is more than the content of the stomach and the intestines... as after 12 days those should have pretty much emptied themselves. Sometimes synos look definitely "obese" on too much food and/or improper diet. Some experienced fish-keepers profess fish cannot be obese. I would tend to agree, except I have seen plenty of fat deposits under the skin and around internal organs, for example, in koi (but koi are of course a temperate water fish that's just highly adaptable to almost any water temperature).

1 month is very young for a tank. Without seeding and proper accelerated bacteria feeding, the cycling usually takes longer, around 6 weeks at least. That has me and Richard concerned about the water.

The tank mates are small. Do you guys think they are safe with the 6-times bigger angelica?

Photos of the fish and the tank would help others help you as well. Nothing accelerates/improves expert advice and hence builds up your knowledge as a good photo.

[9'ofglass]

Thanks for the advice...will do photo over the weekend and post. Nice to know that the guy can go without for that period of time, it takes a lot of the worry away. I should have stated that the tank was fishless cycled a month ago and so was ready for stocking at that time.
I think the little tetras will be OK, going by the last couple of weeks anyway, and they are growing and attaining body depth quite rapidly. Would you believe that today the angelica came out to take a little food with the others at their 6pm frozen food feed! So, more active over the last two days; perhaps I worry needlessly. He did seem very lethargic, and a pale colour, but then after two weeks with no food maybe thats not surprising. Due to the low light of the tank, I will post a video as well - I have a photobucket account so will link to that once done. Here's a couple of pics of tank and a vid (minus the angelica) to check that links work...








OK, the vid is awful...will post pics of the angelica as soon as captured.

[unblinded]

Nice tank, thanks for sharing. My angelica changes colors a bit when it's stressed out (usually annoyed by the Syno Euptera). I used to worry a lot about it but 5 years later she's still going strong. My buddy I got her from had her for who knows how long before that. It sounds like yours is coming around. I have to agree with Viktor about the obese cats--some are downright strange looking when compared to my fish because of the huge rotund bellies. My angelica has been bulletproof, I had an accidental poisoning of a tank once that she went through that killed the majority of the fish in the tank she was in. On a side note, is it just me or does it look like Syno Brichardi & Angelica have a close common ancestor when looking at the photos of them in Warren Burgess' book?

[9'ofglass]

So, caught a long-exposure shot of my angelica 'hiding' tonight; such a beautiful fellow, I hope he settles in. I have kept fish on and off for many years, and the cats are my favourite I think overall...I have a Megalechis thoracata that is growing into a big 'un in my 4', along with two Agamyxis Pectinifrons Spotted Raphaels and two wild caught Callichthys callichthys, the latter being very noisy fellows constantly 'doing the woodpecker' at each other!

Would I get away with a small group of S. nigriventris in with the angelica do you think?

Thanks all for your advice, appreciate the help

[unblinded]

I used to keep a group of six Nigriventris with my Angelica with no issue. She paid them no attention in the least. Pretty much the only Syno she even acknowledges is the Euptera, she's been in with about a dozen Syno Grandiops & various other riverine Synos. Yours is beautiful, by the way. It's not nearly as rotund as some of the behemoths I've seen.

[9'ofglass]

Thanks unblinded, I may well get some more bottom-dwelling life in there then; plenty of room and hiding places to accommodate all. After that its a waiting game until the Congo Tetras and Leopard Bushfish mature, before adding the rest of my African stock; 3 or 4 P. buchholzi ABFs, and finally a couple of E. calabaricus Reedfish and two P. delhezi Bichirs...and then another tank....and more fish! Maybe the USDs would be too small with the Bichirs, even though its a smaller species of? I have to be careful with all these predators about!

I take it that the book you mention in a previous post is one to have if into cats? My buddy NObody Of The Goat has several of the S. brichardi's you mention; beautiful fish as I recall on my last visit to his!

[Viktor Jarikov]

Good video (just dark) and one gorgeous tank. How in the world do your water hyacinths (I think) survive with so little light?

Your angelica looks ok. Indeed, a bit strange for it to be that thick after a 2 weeks' fast.

USD synos are not necessarily bottom dwellers. Mine were always all over the place. I think they are quite ok with an angelica. If you are patient, you can find mine here: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... t=+120+gal

On a side note, is it just me or does it look like Syno Brichardi & Angelica have a close common ancestor when looking at the photos of them in Warren Burgess' book?

I have no idea. This one is for the experts.

[Scleropages]

As Richard B notes, I wouldn't be too worried. It may take a bit more time for your S. angelica to get used to its new environment--especially since it had been kept in one tank (I'm assuming they didn't move it around much, if at all, at your LFS) for a long time before you acquired it. It should start to settle in soon, as it sounds like you have a good setup for it.

I currently have 2 female (10-11"+) and 1 male (9"+) S. angelica that are all around 17 years old in a 125gal tank with a couple of Uaru, some Royal Panaque, and some clown loachs. They are something else... they don't take any garbage from any of their tankmates. But, they seem to all coexist quite well.

[9'ofglass]

Thanks Scleropages - yes I think he(?) is settling down; still not really eating that I can see, but may be picking up odd bits that the others aren't taking...again he was active as the food went in at 6pm today, but didn't take anything. This is an improvement in behaviour so I have fingers fervently crossed that all will be OK. You have a good selection of beauties there then!

Viktor...your cats are absolutely gorgeous! beautiful mix - oggled those pics for a good while. I am unaware of what exactly many of those are..is it not true that you have to be careful with what cat goes with what? I will get a small group of 6-8 USDs; they have months to grow to mature size before I add the bichirs etc.. so will be safe enough at adult size hopefully. 2500G tank...you don't happen to have a link to that as well do you? That sounds like dreamy stuff, what is it, a cellar conversion or something? I want one!!
The Water Hyacinth and Water Lettuce are both doing well on my 10W LED (just gone mad and added another 3W using pond spotlights to highlight the anubias), the latter actively pushing out new growth...the tank has reasonably good ambient light with no direct sunlight. I wanted to try these pond plants as I want to ensure I have reliable cover for the African Butterflys and others enjoying topside hides etc...and I love the root systems, very beautiful purply colour on the Hyacinth and a grass green colour on the Lettuce. I have noticed that in the 4' my C.callichthys and hoplo enjoy a good mooch around in the roots as well (with perhaps a quick munch on the way through!)

Thanks for the advice people!

[Birger]

I have also kept 5

Synodontis angelica

and a large group(18ish) of

Synodontis nigriventris

together in the same tank...it was a large tank but the angelica would more or less ignore the smaller nigriventris letting them hang out in the same area.

A lone angelica may pay more attention to other species of synodontis though.

On a side note, is it just me or does it look like Syno Brichardi & Angelica have a close common ancestor when looking at the photos of them in Warren Burgess' book?

As far as ancestry it is possible for them to have a similar ancestor, they do come from the same river system but they have very different conditions in the wild and to me physically look very different. Brichardi is only found in a very fast stretch of the river below Malebo pool and has had to adapt to this environment while angelica is found from within Malebo pool and farther upriver.

Birger

[racoll]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the photo it looks like the syno has a nasty case of velvet (or maybe whitespot).

That would account for it being "very lethargic, and a pale colour". Some better photos will help.

Another factor worth considering, if the fish was in a shop for years, is that the fish may have only ever been fed one type of food (probably a flake food brand), and has therefore become accustomed to it (hence refusing other foods).

[Birger]

The fish to me while it could still grow due to the size and age it looks stunted but well fed and otherwise healthy, the faded color is probably due to the photo being taken in the dark. Mature synos also can look faded due to epithilial projections as seen here http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=2711 which can cover the belly and sides.

Birger

[9'ofglass]

Thanks Racoll, no white spot; the photo is taken at night on long exposure so giving a false impression of fade - he is faded but I think should colour up once settled. I enquired of the LFS as to what they were feeding him; they said he wasn't fussy and took pellet, granule etc. if I remember correctly...but who knows what they feed their fish behind closed doors! I do feel that the LFS is a good one and their stock is consistantly in good health...have to wonder why he was kept in such a small tank though.

Yes Birger I would imagine his growth has been stunted due to the long-term residence in a totally inappropriate tank..I will feel that I have given him a better quality of life when he settles and thats what matters to me!

Going to try for a better quality photo tomorrow and upload...

[Viktor Jarikov]

You are getting excellent help from the experts here. I suppose what Racoll saw as a possible sign of parasites could have been just a sediment suspended in the water and/or settling down on the lying catfish. The pic is not great on the absolute scale but we can all appreciate how hard it was to get even that.

Thanks for the compliment. I too love the look and the utility of the roots of the floating plants. As for other of your questions/comments, I had to send you a PM (private message), as these would be off-topic.

[9'ofglass]

http://youtu.be/bfy5awqwTNQ

hope the above link works, went onto Youtube to d/l videos as photobucket renders too dark.

Racall, I am thinking you may be absolutely right..wish I knew what to look for, but I noticed one of my Ctenopoma acutirostre has pin-prick white spots over caudal fin, around head and body, also very dark colouration so obviously not feeling too good; I am assuming this to be white spot - also the sides of my angelica look 'cloudy'. Wish I could get a better shot, but having seen white spot before am pretty sure thats what the acutirostre has...had only seen 5 of the 6 for days and then he popped out covered in spots, typical. Will try to get a shot for confirmation from you guys - in the meantime I am upping the temperature from 24C to 30 over the next 24 hours or so, and will treat with ESHA exit as I believe this is effective and a relatively kind treatment on young and sensitive fish, to get rid of the parasite, especially with saline-sensitive cats in the tank?

Will keep you updated as to progress; your help is really appreciated here...

[9'ofglass]

Update...S.angelica out of hiding on day 3 (final day) of eSHa Exit, looking for food for the first time in 3 weeks, in fact since introduced to the tank. Sincerely hope this is a sign of a turnaround for him. 11 S.nigriventris have settled in well with no Ich signs, and the worst of my 3 remaining Ctenopoma acutirostre was out feeding this evening. All good signs...

The S.nigriventris have spent the first three days doing laps around the tank...never seen such active cats before, its as if they have inboard motors - great fun to watch! They do rest (deservedly) during the day now.

A big thanks to Racoll for so accurately spotting the white spot on the photo of my angelica posted earlier - surely saved a life or two there as treatment would otherwise have been delayed.

Also thanks to NObody Of The Goat for clueing me into PlanetCatfish!!

[Birger]

A big thanks to Racoll for so accurately spotting the white spot on the photo of my angelica posted earlier - surely saved a life or two there as treatment would otherwise have been delayed.

Indeed...good spot.

The S.nigriventris have spent the first three days doing laps around the tank...never seen such active cats before, its as if they have inboard motors - great fun to watch! They do rest (deservedly) during the day now.

This is normal for these to do, they will settle in soon and will not be as active(except for feeding time).

Birger

[9'ofglass]

Just as you said Birger, they are now more settled, coming out at feeding time and on the blue/red evening LEDs. S.angelica now behaving normally and looking rather splendid!

[Scleropages]

Good eye, Racoll. 9'ofglass, I'm glad your syno is doing better now. Love those S. angelica!