Hypancistrus Zebra alphas...

[Lars Jamne]

Hypancistrus Zebra makes trying to figure out who's gonna be the new alpha in the new breeding tank...

[TwoTankAmin]

I am sorry, but what I see is a tank inappropriately set up and stocked. I see a tank that will merely cause fighting, not a group environment and the establishment of a hierarchy.

Please give these fish a bigger tank and a lot more cover.

[Lars Jamne]

They have plenty of space, each of these 12 tanks are 100l with a large bottom area. We'll add driftwood and some stones eventually, but the tanks are to be held easy to maintain as they are all breeding tanks...

The group of six may be cut down to four when we find out who's the alpha and which females' more suitable for the alpha male...

[TwoTankAmin]

I am sorry but I do not agree. My experience, which I have confirmed with others, is that the Alpha male is often not the largest. If you are going to work with trios or pairs I highly doubt it matters how you split them up. On the other hand fighting can cause damage and deaths which are not necessary. The determination of a pecking order doesn't happen over night, especially when the fish involved are similar sized. How long are you going to have eyes on the tank to insure there is no serious damage?

One of the keys to allowing this sort of thing to work with a group is that there is a way for one to get out of sight of the other. The current underdog needs to be able to run away to safety. You say it is 100L, the problem I see is the footprint is more important than the volume so the tank is taller than need be but smaller in area fir the current stocking.

I still see nothing to be gained by what you are doing and a lot of potential for harm.

[har_eh]

Agree with TTA here..
They're not figuring out anything, what you see here are to many males fighting for to few hiding places.

[Matt30]

Hi mate, as both of the above have already said, you need some cover in your tank, no one expects you to try to recreate your Zebra's natural environment, but what kind of response do you expect When you set your tank up like that. You post videos of L046's fighting in a flood lite tank with no hiding places? and then try and justifying it, word of advice set up your tank for your fish not for you! Or what is point ?

[Suckermouth]

I agree that you should provide more cover than the number of zebra plecs. I see three hiding spots for more than three zebra plecs. Even when I have provided more than enough hiding spots I have had zebra plecs kill each other. Determining the alpha male isn't that important that you should risk zebra plec death.

I have bottomless tanks with PLENTY of hiding spaces in the forms of caves that are still quite easy to maintain. It doesn't matter as much how big the tank is but you do need enough caves.

[pleco_breeder]

It's a lot more important to know the lesser males have places to get away to than to know who they're hiding from. From a breeding standpoint, the alpha isn't any more likely to spawn than any other unless the others are getting beaten to death.

I started talking about a dominance hierarchy in these fish over 15 years ago. I don't think anyone else had touched on it before that even though aggression was well understood. However, it was never intended to be taken as a breeding tip. It was to give some model of how to safely keep a group of fish together to grow out for breeding. I keep groups of several species in 10 gallon tanks, on central systems, with nothing more than foam filters, caves, and maybe a fist full of plants floating. I occasionally see some sign of a short scuffle, but never anything like what is shown in the video.

Assuming this is a grow out tank, although the fish appear to be nearly adult size, I would also advise to open the caves up. I use mostly PVC for my caves. Depending on the aggressive nature of the species, sometimes they are a bit more intricate than the norm, but never put a cap on the end of a cave till I know the colony is established and both sexes are mature enough to spawn. Too often, one fish gets trapped in a cave and isn't ready or maybe even the wrong sex, and literally gets eaten alive.

Assuming you plan on breeding these fish, the best tip would be to take to heart what has been written here. More often than not, set-ups like shown in the video equate to stressed, sick, or dead fish. I would hope that's not the goal.

Larry

[Birger]

In a thread that could have easily turned sour like a couple have recently...

I would like to thank all involved for not moving into name calling and especially those that answered with civil and helpful explanations related to the concerns for the fish involved.

Ultimately it is the OP's choice whether or not to heed this advice from these experienced members.


Birger

Hey Milton how do you keep water in a bottomless tank???

I have bottomless tanks

[Suckermouth]

Hahaha I think that's the second time you've made that joke!

[Birger]

Hahaha I think that's the second time you've made that joke!

Aww man, you have to give me more to work with!

Birger

[TwoTankAmin]

Well not to change the topic of this thread, but since it has been mentioned...

He could have said he had bear bottom tanks

[Lars Jamne]

Well, things have become more normal in this tank now after we added a few more caves, rocks, driftwood etc in this tank and the other zebra tanks as well… Each of these tanks are lower than the standard 100l tanks and has larger bottom area.

After the addition they are all calm and have found their own territories in the tank. It was not planned to have such naked tanks, but it was lack of material the first week because we rigged up too many tanks without enough material at once and all the fish was brought to our facility… It was better to get them in the "naked" tanks with a few caves than to stand in buckets I think.

So eventually we hope these groups will start breeding soon, at least our water quality is good enough for the Hypancistrus breeds. Just found a good handful L236 frys in the driftwood when I moved the adult group to a bigger and more suitable tank. And the water is the same in all tanks so it ought to work with the Zebras too given time.