to cook or not to cook - that is the question

suemack · Post by **suemack** » 01 Nov 2003, 04:42

when preparing courgette and cucumber, spinach to feed to my fish - ottos and my new friend (red whiptail catfish) should I be cooking/blanching the veges or feeding them raw weighed or tied down - have had some problems when they are cooked with the food disolving into mush in the tank (reality is I'm not a great cook) ......and - how often should I be feeding them this sort of food - usually feed them spirulena and pleco tabs at night when the lights go out.

What do you guys do?

thanks -

sue

Post by **Silurus** » 01 Nov 2003, 04:59

have had some problems when they are cooked with the food disolving into mush in the tank

I think you are cooking them for too long in this case. Try blanching them for a few seconds in boiling water.

mokmu · Post by **mokmu** » 01 Nov 2003, 06:31

I normally have what I'd like to call "feeding stones". I attach all my vegetables to these stones via a rubber band. After the food is gone, I take the stones out.

I have never passed any of my veggies through heat to feed my plecs because:

1) it becomes mush
2) nutrition (vitamins and minerals) is somehow lost or lessened during the cooking process
3) why subject them to heat wehen you can feed them fresh
4) out in the wild plecs normally get what's coming to them whether they be animal or plant matter. There are no "cooked" food. Well, except for the stuff humans tend to leave or throw in the lake
5) just my preferrence

Regards,
Mike D.

S. Allen · Post by **S. Allen** » 01 Nov 2003, 07:17

it doesn't even have to be boiling water, I can sit a frozen cucumber in my hot tap water for a few seconds to half a minute and it'll sink... least damage without messing with weighing things down

magnum4 · Post by **magnum4** » 01 Nov 2003, 19:11

I only flash boil certain food items like lettuce for instance for two second. lettuce is a terrestrial plant and has a strong cellulose struceture which for some plecs needs to be broken down to make it easier for their digestion ect. I dont use this for preparing
courgette, cucumber or spinach as they contain more moisture and IMO are soft enough.

What makes life easier for me is storing courgette and cucumber in the freezer and the freezing process breaks down more cellulose, so when thawed it's ready for use.

Depending on how many vegetarian inclined species you have will decide how often you feed. An average for me would be four times per week.

Yann · Post by **Yann** » 01 Nov 2003, 20:58

HI!

I used to boil it but since you loose all the good stuff in the vegies that way. I don't do it anymore except washing them pretty well to remove any insectisides or stuff...
I have also heard that freezing food isn't so good as also some important nutriments can be lost...
Cheers
Yann

suemack · Post by **suemack** » 01 Nov 2003, 22:47

thank you all for your thoughts - this is so interesting - hearing from people who know what they are talking about with catfish

when I asked at the lfs they told me that you don't need to feed fresh food that the tablets and flake food were enough and that the fresh food would just polute the tank

- that didn't sound right so began to experiment with various things.....that's when I ended up with the cooked 'mush' in the tank (which - by the way - the guppies thought was wonderful ...good to know that someone appreciates my cooking!

)

regards - sue

Post by **Barbie** » 02 Nov 2003, 02:31

I personally doubt that many discus happen upon fresh beef heart in the rivers, but that doesn't make it less of a good food source for them.

I try not to cook the zucchini, squash, cucumber, or romaine, but instead, I nuke some water in the microwave, and then pour that hot water onto the veggies for a minute or two. That tends to "soften" the vegetables enough that the plecos can gnaw pieces of more readily, and keep it from spoiling before it softens enough to be utilized. Spinach and nori sheets are soft enough without the hot water. I also dry cucumbers and zuchini from the garden for use with the baby plecos. It sinks on its own, and seems to be working wonderfully so far.

I've also had good luck with the freezing method, and actually found that some plecos and vegetarian fish just LOVE french cut canned green beans. I take the can, drain the liquid and then rinse them a time or two, then serve each tank a portion ( they sink ) and take what's left in the can and put it in a ziplock baggie. I then press them flat and pop them in the freezer. Then I can break off a small chunk at will. It works really well.

It's really about your own preference, IMO. Vegetables with much of a "waxy" exterior are going to be slower to uptake water and thus soften, so a little jumpstart can make them more easily edible. Obviously, cooking them to mush isn't advisable. My royal pleco DID love boiled carrots though. I suppose at some point I should try those for the babies again

Been considering making a veggie puree in the summer when the farmers market is in full swing, then drying it, like fruit leather. If it would sink, you could guarantee your fish were getting a well balanced diet, and moderate their servings more carefully. I will update you if I try it!

Barbie

Darkangel · Post by **Darkangel** » 02 Nov 2003, 10:17

A method I have never seen anybody else talk about but works great for me when I feed zuccinin is to use those heater clamps. They are about 3 inches long with two suction cups and two clamps for holding on to a heater. They hold a zuccini half perfectly. By the time it comes out of the holder there is nothing left to worry about. Just my two cents.

Steen · Post by **Steen** » 02 Nov 2003, 11:17

Hi

I never boil zuchini/squash and also potatos goes in the tanks uncooked (they are peeled(right word?)). Only thing i do boile for a few minutes are the stems from brocholi.

Barbie: I have newer tried that drying technique, how do you do it. Does it goes in the owen? It sounds like a good idÃ© and a good add to the pleco kitchen

Post by **Shane** » 02 Nov 2003, 15:24

I never cook or freeze veggies (not to say that it is wrong) as I believe that the most nutritional state of any veggie has to be its natural state. Also, cooking and freezing break down the fibers which are just what (Cochliodon and Panaque especially) many loricariids need. I have also found that many loricariids prefer green and yellow squash to cucumber.
-Shane

Post by **Barbie** » 02 Nov 2003, 17:32

I was making sun dried tomatoes this summer with my grandmothers food dehydrator, while literally having to throw away zuchini and cucumbers, due to not being able to use them fast enough (yes, I SHOULD have listened when he told me I didn't need so many plants, lol). I peeled and seeded the cucumbers and cut them into quarters, lengthwise, and dried the strips. I think the temp it uses is 130 degrees, and it has a forced air fan that keeps the air moving in there. They were dry in about 18 hours. The zuchini I simply cut in slices and then poppped out the seeds in the center. That gives me a manageable sized piece to use, per tank. The cucumber shrinks up quite a bit more than you would expect, which would also relate to how much of it is water, I would assume, and also why its not considered an idea food source. The baby albino bristlenose sure love it though.

I would assume you could dry them at a low temperature easily enough

Barbie

suemack · Post by **suemack** » 02 Nov 2003, 17:58

hadn't heard that you can feed potatoes

- what other veges could you use - so far mine have only had courgettes, spinach, cucumber and peas(which didn't work they floated around the tank till I fished them out) - sue

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 02 Nov 2003, 18:25

Use your imagination - look at your fishes teeth. Imagine what might fall in a river. Also, don't be afraid to experiment. After all, who worked out to put toilet paper tubes in with hamsters!

A word of warning to those beginners following this post - be VERY careful and start of with small amounts of veggies. If these foods are uneaten or entriely eaten they will produce heavy loads on your filtration. The tank in the photo is turned over 12 times an hour by 6 powerheads sucking through a filter bed 48x18x3.

Jools

suemack · Post by **suemack** » 02 Nov 2003, 18:58

thanks jools - BTW what sort of camera do you use to get those awesome photos?

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 03 Nov 2003, 09:07

suemack wrote:thanks jools - BTW what sort of camera do you use to get those awesome photos?

It's a Kodak DC290 - I'm thinking of selling it soon...

Jools

Pectorale · Post by **Pectorale** » 05 Nov 2003, 16:10

Hi all,

Steen wrote

they are peeled

Why would you do that? Zuchini and cucumber peel contains a higher concentration of vitamins AFAIK, your fish might love it too. My Panaque prefers the 'green' zuchini parts to most other fresh veggies I feed him, he always eats that first, he seems less interested in the rest of it.

Pectorale

YouTube · Post by **Jools** » 05 Nov 2003, 16:13

Yes, some plecos eat from the outside in and others from the inside out. The skin is often eaten and I find it helps keep the food together as the fish work on it.

Jools

Post by **Barbie** » 05 Nov 2003, 19:02

I peel cucumber because I personally find the peels to be bitter, and my fish are so spoiled the idea didn't occur to me that I'd be robbing them of any of the nutritious bits, lol. Most of the foods I feed them have the peels left on though

Barbie

Steen · Post by **Steen** » 05 Nov 2003, 21:46

Hi pectorale and others..
Potatos:
they are peeled

Why would you do that?
I haven't seen any of my plecos eating the potato-peeling, it's always laying back and the potatos dont get soft without it, I think it's because of that. You'r right about squach, I dont peel them either.

Btw have anybody tried oat-flakes? ddo they get to soft or are they accepted (hhmm I could try of course)
Steen

Pectorale · Post by **Pectorale** » 21 Nov 2003, 09:59

Hi Steen,

I have no experience with feeding potatoes, but I'll try it. Still I'd only scrub them real clean, not peel them.
Those pl*co's of mine all have real good teeth and I think it's healthier or rather more natural that they 'd have to use them. It keeps them entertained, something hard to chew on, like a toy for dogs; they'll play with it for hours plus uncooked veggies don't spoil so fast.

P.S.
Squeeze the air from the peas, no need to squash them, just break the skin and they'll sink to the bottom. My dorads like peas floating on the surface by the way.

Greetz Pectorale

aspen · Post by **aspen** » 21 Nov 2003, 18:14

a couple of points from my exp:

1. seeding cukes and zuccini (gourgette) is very important. mine won't eat the seeds anyway and they make less mess this way.

2. if the raw veggies won't sink, stick a stainless steel fork into it, and it WILL sink this way. (don't let the wife see you steal this fork, and don't give it back either.) i used to microwave veggies, but there has been recent studies done that this removes as much as 95% of the nutrients from them. i never cook anything anymore.

3. feed them other stuff. it is very good for them. many other things esp regular fish food like sinking pellets food seems good for them too. my farlowellas do very well devouring 'new life spectrum' discus pellets, because i had them and didn't want to feed them to my discus. (they swell)

4. only feed your fish those sinking algae pellets as a last resort. they don't seem very good food when compared to the end off of a cuke or a carrot.

5. no, beefheart is not a natural occurrance in the amazon, then i haven't seen any biologists identifying any new live forms of tetra bits or ocean nutrition formula 1 flake, yet these are pretty good food for discus imo. using the natural occurring food items should be used as a guide, however there are many different things that these fish will eat which wouldn't be on any wild fish's menu. imo, it is better to use food that does not occurr naturally for your fish, it likely greatly alleviates the chance that any natural parasite the food might have picked up which would naturally be passed along to them.

if i'm correct, my catfish seem to do much better when there is a lot of veggie matter going through them.

rick