eyal8a pleco tank - beautiful pictures !!

[eyal8a]

Eyal8a - Do you test the water parameters? It's just that I would of thought 40% WC per week isn't enough to keep the water ok.

Hi matthewfaulkner
I check the water parameters twice a week
I check:
PH
Nh3
No2
No3

All the parameters are O.K

[PlecoCrazy]

Very nice pictures! Wish I could take such nice pictures of my plecos.

[Yann]

Hi!!

eyal8a: I understand your fascination about those fish and I am sure everyone does.
I am happy to learn that your are testing parameters and everything seems to be fine for now. I am also happy to see that so far all fish seems to behave correctly.

If I could give you a few advice, even if many species are beautiful, it is important to try to make choices and keep a few of them...there are many species I would love to keep, but like you the place and the number of tanks are limited, so choices had to be made regarding what to keep and what to pass on, I know it isn't an easy decision, but for the well being of your fish in the long run it is the wiser decision.

You are keeping water condition more or less stable with water change, but it is a fragil environnement and skip one water change or delay it for 2 weeks...and problem could surge with devasting consequences.

Your pleco seem to behave well, but like cichlids, they are territorial, you ll probably see some pushing arounds but so far with no much damages, mainly because no cave are present, once they will be put in the tank, the consequences would be much worst.

Again I was wondering since how long since this tank has been running with such setup and population.

The remarks aimed by the others were a rather wrong way of saying they love these fish as much as you do and want you to avoid going through bad experience we might have gone through in the past...the message is wise, I agree the words were not wisely choosen and once communication is borken, no one wants to listen...

Cheers
Yann

[naturalart]

I think we should all be aware that there are as many different levels of interest as there are individuals in a giving activity. For example some commercial fishkeepers think ornamental fishkeepers are kind of superfluous and silly. If you can't eat it or it doesn't have a direct practical application to human welfare, whats the point?

Same within ornamental fish keepers. There are some of us just interested in keeping some beautiful fish in a tank, and thats as far as it goes. Then there are those of us who want to keep their fish in as close to their natural environment as possible, perhaps believing that this will bring out the true nature/behavior and therefore the true beauty of a fish. And there are some who recognize that we as humans have a responsibility to these wonderful creatures who bring us so much joy and inspiration. Through encouraging these fish to breed they help in the conservation effort. And some, even further, helping to conserve the natural waterways that they come from in the first place. All positions valid.

Finally I say this: all animals are sentient beings sharing this planet with us, not 'things'. And those that are endangered warrant special attention.
I don't claim to speak for all fish keepers. I'm just trying to help us gain some perspective on the issue.

[jac]

Hi Jac,

Or we could just all be nice?

I am not a fan of locking threads that are borderline (in the sense of forum contributions) like this one as they just come back again and again. This is at least my experience of running this forum since it's launch in 2003. We're not known for ducking the hard issues here and things are usually pretty civil. Some one could, for example, do the math on adult size of all this pokemon collection - or draw analogies with what can be done versus what is good to do.

The point is not convincing the OP that he's got an overstocked tank, it's all the lurkers, those learning and "on-the-fence" that a continued debate serves to educate.

Tell you what, next nasty / warning level comment and I will lock it.

Jools

That's fine with me Jools. It is difficult when to decide to close.
I must admit that your right, there are people here that read this tread and could still learn "how not to keep fish"
So looking at the positive side of things here, let's keep it going for those who are thinking of keeping some of the fish in this tread.

Cheers!

[biko]

To Eyal8a,

I've read this thread and i'm not gonna tell you what to do or not.

But I feel necessary to warn you for people like jac, rob rensen, dutchfry, phyllonemus.
We have the same problem with them in The Netherlands. They are just a little group trouble makers on diff fora. All they do is challenge you ... and if they can't win they ask the moderator to close the thread. Is always going that way. Be smart and ignore them !

Biko (Amsterdam - The Netherlands)

[eyal8a]

To Eyal8a,

I've read this thread and i'm not gonna tell you what to do or not.

But I feel necessary to warn you for people like jac, rob rensen, dutchfry, phyllonemus.
We have the same problem with them in The Netherlands. They are just a little group trouble makers on diff fora. All they do is challenge you ... and if they can't win they ask the moderator to close the thread. Is always going that way. Be smart and ignore them !

Biko (Amsterdam - The Netherlands)

Thank bro'
I'm always says: " if you shout laoder,doesnt mean you are necessarily right.."
Let them say what ever they want to say, they have the right to express them self
If you want to see the true behavior of a fish,dont put him in your tank!!!, leave him in nature !!
I dont believe that puting 6-7 pleco alone in a tank will give you their "true" behavior.

Once again..
As it concern to me, im not looking the fish behavior or breeding
Im just enjoy the beauti of him, and you know what?? It's F***** O.K !!, as long as i'm taking good care of my babies.

I realy dont think these little group are more pro' or know how to keep fish better than me.
Unfortunately ,we cant all meet in each other home & compare our tanks & fish, im more then positive that my tank would have placed in the highest 3 on the podium..

For the last 4 years I have the most beautiful & healthy pleco's, people in Israel know that if they want to by a pleco you should buy it from Eyal8a !!

Later on i will upload more pic's of my babies...

[Yann]

@ Birko!!

I don't see the point of your message, I suggest you to check directly with the person you named if you have problem with them, this forum is surely not the place to discuss such issue.

So I hurge anyone not to reply to Bilko respond and simply ignore it.
Thanks
Cheers
Yann

[krazyGeoff]

Hi!!

eyal8a: I understand your fascination about those fish and I am sure everyone does.
I am happy to learn that your are testing parameters and everything seems to be fine for now. I am also happy to see that so far all fish seems to behave correctly.

If I could give you a few advice, even if many species are beautiful, it is important to try to make choices and keep a few of them...there are many species I would love to keep, but like you the place and the number of tanks are limited, so choices had to be made regarding what to keep and what to pass on, I know it isn't an easy decision, but for the well being of your fish in the long run it is the wiser decision.

You are keeping water condition more or less stable with water change, but it is a fragil environnement and skip one water change or delay it for 2 weeks...and problem could surge with devasting consequences.

Your pleco seem to behave well, but like cichlids, they are territorial, you ll probably see some pushing arounds but so far with no much damages, mainly because no cave are present, once they will be put in the tank, the consequences would be much worst.

Again I was wondering since how long since this tank has been running with such setup and population.

The remarks aimed by the others were a rather wrong way of saying they love these fish as much as you do and want you to avoid going through bad experience we might have gone through in the past...the message is wise, I agree the words were not wisely choosen and once communication is borken, no one wants to listen...

Cheers
Yann

+1 for yann, very constructive post.

I could never make the choice, so ended up with multiple tank syndrome.

Biko, welcome to PC, but you have done the very thing that Jools was trying to avoid

Edit: quoted the post I was referring to.

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I've just read through this whole thread, and I've got to be honest it really saddens me.

As an example many of the large Panaque spp. are reliant on forest cover in their natural habitat to supply then with the sunken wood that they inhabit and consume. These fish show parental care, slow maturation and are long lived with low fecundity. They are what ecologists call 'K selected' species and are the Mahogany, or Parrots, of the fish world and equally vulnerable. They haven't been bred in captivity and they are already threatened by oil exploration, mining, logging, agricultural activities, hydroelectric development, illegal drug production and population expansion.

Should fish-keepers of all nations take this into account before making decisions about buying and housing "their" fish? I think they should.

cheers Darrel

[Yann]

Before it goes beyond control.

I am locking it and we ll discuss it and see if it will be reopen after some clean off!
Everyone camps in his position...
Thanks
Cheers
Yann

[Jools]

Sad, but Yann appears correct in that we can't appear to discuss this sensibly and so it's locked.

Jools

[Jools]

It's F***** O.K !!, as long as i'm taking good care of my babies.

As per forum rules, bad language is not tolerated and a warning has been issued. This is the third warning and so a ban is now in place.

Jools

[Jools]

While I think this thread had run its useful course and little was to be gained from unlocking it, I wanted to provide an update on the ban for the OP. I've removed one warning from the OP (the warning issued for trolling) as, on reflection and after appeal, I overreacted. I take at face value that the OP genuinely didn't understand that his set-up would be so revolting to some members. That said, I remain disturbed by (rather off-topic) anti-national comments and the abusive nature of some replies.

That's not how we do things here. This post being a good case in point. This is an international forum and has a wide congregation indeed. If we're all going to get along then we need to accept, and by all means vigorously debate, our differences. That is why there are rules.

On rules, and to be clear and for example, it's perfectly OK to point out why you think an aquarium set-up is bad. It's not OK to call someone bad/idiot/[insert abusive term here].

Jools