My new pangasius cat

[fish 4 life]

Hey guys this is my first post up on here so i just want to show you my setup... I have two pangasius in a 20 gallon tank. Just got them 3 days ago so they are still getting use to their set up. I have been feeding them blood worms but they freak out when i feed them and smash into the walls and go crazy this normal?
Anyways what do you think?
P.S. I know these fish get to 4 ft. and i will be upgrading their house as they grow..

[Birger]

I have been feeding them blood worms but they freak out when i feed them and smash into the walls and go crazy this normal?
Anyways what do you think?
P.S. I know these fish get to 4 ft. and i will be upgrading their house as they grow..

Okay, this is your first post...speaking as a moderator it almost seems like you are either looking for a couple of " thats cool" comments or you have written in such a way to start what I can only think you know will be negative feedback to the above...or you may really be after honest opinions and advice, if this is the case I suggest you heed the advice without being hurt and know these people are just trying to save you some heartbreak.

You may be surprised how often we get posts like this...Please read the big cat sticky here http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =7&t=10494

Birger

[fish 4 life]

I have been feeding them blood worms but they freak out when i feed them and smash into the walls and go crazy this normal?
Anyways what do you think?
P.S. I know these fish get to 4 ft. and i will be upgrading their house as they grow..

Okay, this is your first post...speaking as a moderator it almost seems like you are either looking for a couple of " thats cool" comments or you have written in such a way to start what I can only think you know will be negative feedback to the above...or you may really be after honest opinions and advice, if this is the case I suggest you heed the advice without being hurt and know these people are just trying to save you some heartbreak.

You may be surprised how often we get posts like this...Please read the big cat sticky here http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =7&t=10494

Birger

Hey, umm yeah I am aware of the size they get and I would love so advice because this is my first time keeping this species. Yeah I understand people disagree with keeping them but i don't mind. So any advice?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Hi Fish4life! Very nice to have you join here. I did answer your question to the best I could on your original MFK thread (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... =fish+life) and I do hope you will receive a warm welcome and more opinions and solid advising here.

Cute tank, BTW. You might try dimming the light when you are feeding them/approaching the tank/opening the tank...

My MFK reply: "They will always be on the nervous side. It's their nature. But the bigger and older they get, the less of that you will see. Still, it will never go away.

The best practice to alleviate that is to have a large tank (they require a bigger tank than the 4xL by 2xL by 2xL rule of thumb calls for) because they swim constantly, not to have anything sharp or abrasive in the tank that they can injure themselves when they do dart, have friendly, non-aggressive tank mates, and try not to spook them. "

They are very small, so the tank size is fine for now. There are no tank mates, right? So you have to try to spook them less. They will probably still spook. It's only been a week in their new tank, right? Give them a few weeks to adjust and calm down some (they will never calm down totally as I was explaining).

[fish 4 life]

Hi Fish4life! Very nice to have you join here. I did answer your question to the best I could on your original MFK thread (http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... =fish+life) and I do hope you will receive a warm welcome and more opinions and solid advising here.

Cute tank, BTW. You might try dimming the light when you are feeding them/approaching the tank/opening the tank...

My MFK reply: "They will always be on the nervous side. It's their nature. But the bigger and older they get, the less of that you will see. Still, it will never go away.

The best practice to alleviate that is to have a large tank (they require a bigger tank than the 4xL by 2xL by 2xL rule of thumb calls for) because they swim constantly, not to have anything sharp or abrasive in the tank that they can injure themselves when they do dart, have friendly, non-aggressive tank mates, and try not to spook them. "

They are very small, so the tank size is fine for now. There are no tank mates, right? So you have to try to spook them less. They will probably still spook. It's only been a week in their new tank, right? Give them a few weeks to adjust and calm down some (they will never calm down totally as I was explaining).

Cool thanks so much! Yeah no tank mates and yes its only been about 1 week. Will they ever eat in front of me?

[Viktor Jarikov]

They surely will. Just keep their water nice.

Do they not eat at all yet (which'd be normal for just 1 week in the new tank) or do you imply that they pick up the food you drop later, when you leave?

(Hint: there is no need to quote the message to which you are replying if it is right above - hit the "post reply" button, not "quote" ) even if you hit quote, all can be erased before starting to type the reply...

[fish 4 life]

Oh okay sorry. yeah i keep their water super clean i do a 25% water change a day with fresh filter reverse osmosis water. Yeah i put the blood worms in and turn the lights off and when i come back they are all gone. i am pretty sure they are eating it(or the filter might be sucking them up....) What is a good diet for these fish? I bought some omnivore food thats in frozen cubes but is no small.(finely chopped), also got beef heart. What else should i feed them?
Thanks so much for your help!

[Viktor Jarikov]

F4L: Oh okay sorry.
VJ: please don't apologize. I am merely attempting to be helpful.

F4L: yeah i keep their water super clean
VJ: water tests show that - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, and temp

F4L: i do a 25% water change a day with fresh filter reverse osmosis water.
VJ: is your tap water that bad? in most of US, the tap water is fine with a little bit of dechlorinator. RO costs much more than dechlorinator but for such a small tank like yours, it should not matter much... for now.

F4L: Yeah i put the blood worms in and turn the lights off and when i come back they are all gone. i am pretty sure they are eating it(or the filter might be sucking them up....)
VJ: If the filter was sucking them up, you'd see them on the filter screened intake and inside too. If you don't and the fish look like they ate, it's a very good sign that all is adequate atm.

F4L: What is a good diet for these fish? I bought some omnivore food thats in frozen cubes but is no small.(finely chopped), also got beef heart. What else should i feed them?
VJ: they are not fussy. When they were small, mine liked bloodworms, flakes of all kinds, mysis shrimp, pellet crums, you know fine (small) foods. Have not always taken fish pieces, shrimp, mussel, crab - you know very meaty foods. Only rarely. I've never given them beef heart, for that matter I've never given it to any of my fish. I'd predict they won't take it or won't take it easily, but I've been wrong before. When big (1'-2'), mine always preferred pellets - koi, catfish, gamefish, floating, sinking... - it didn't matter to them.

[fish 4 life]

My water tests show Ammonia=0 nitrate=0 nitrite=0 Ph=7.4 Temp. 75 degrees. And yeah the water here is bad at least for me in my tap water i have over 1.50 ppm ammonia so yeah pretty bad. Good news i just feed him with the lights out and he ate a blood worm that was in front on him
Thanks again!!!!

[Suckermouth]

yeah i keep their water super clean i do a 25% water change a day with fresh filter reverse osmosis water.

This is not good. RO contains no natural minerals or electrolytes, and more or less will cause the fish to lose salts to the environment. Normally I don't recommend aquarium salt, but in this situation I would add a small dose of aquarium salt to any new water so that your fish isn't swimming in absolutely pure water.

I mean it's not really contributing to what you're seeing, 'cuz iridescent sharks are kind of like that anyway, but I don't think prolonged exposure to RO water is going to be a good thing in the long run.

[Shane]

RO contains no natural minerals or electrolytes, and more or less will cause the fish to lose salts to the environment.

Milton, water produced by aquarium grade RO units is actually not that pure. Hence the poster's pH of 7.4, which would be imossible in true RO water. Regardless, it is a waste and probably unhealthy over the long term, for the OP to keep using an RO unit for all the water used in water changes.
-Shane

[Viktor Jarikov]

I think Fish4life will elaborate on the RO. I have 0.25 ppm NH3 in my well water and a TDS of 1400 ppm, 700 ppm Ca+Mg. Here in SW FL, most people outside of the cities are on softened or RO-ed well water. After the RO, the water usually runs through a calcite unit which adds a bit of Ca and Mg back into the raw RO water (which has a TDS 20-50 ppm and a pH of 6.0-6.5) and raises the TDS to about 100-150 ppm and pH to ~7 (it can be controlled). It also runs through an activated carbon filter then too. If it's a whole-house RO unit, then the cost/wastefulness argument is removed. If what the OP calls an RO water contains 100-200 ppm of TDS, then the fish health argument can be removed too, more or less?

[fish 4 life]

Yes i tested the RO water it had like 6.4 ph or something like that so yeah thats a good idea about adding salt. But i did not add salt because from my research it says pangasius like 6.5-7.5 ph in the water. I am also using high ph cichlid fine sand which raises my ph up alot! So wait i am confused why is the RO water bad? What are the long term effects?

Thanks again guys!

[Viktor Jarikov]

I am no expert but common reason would say that living organisms, like fish, are filled with bodily fluids having certain concentration of certain chemicals, just as Milton started to explain. The fluids are in an equilibrium with the surrounding medium. If the said medium is very poor in everything, as the well-RO-ed water is, the fishes body will be losing the chemicals, it needs to live healthy, to the tank water. Generally speaking. Some fishes come from low-TDS water, like Amazon is, while others come from high-TDS, like lake Tanganyika.

Now on top of TDS - total dissolved solids, one should pay attention to hardness. Some fishes can come from high TDS water, for instance, but from low hardness water. Usually salinity (sodium chloride) plus hardness (Ca and Mg salts) account for almost all of TDS.

I don't know what Mekong river and Tonle Sap lake water is like, where IDS evolved, I assume.

[fish 4 life]

Wow man you know a lot! I wish i knew that much!! Okay so is their a way for me to test the TDS in the water? I get what you are saying so what can i do to fix this or how can i raise the TDS in the water?

P.S. Good news my Pangasius's just ate some beef heart!! they seemed to like it more than blood worms!!

Thanks again!!!

[Suckermouth]

Viktor is partially right. Fish are not in equilibrium with their environment, they actively regulate to their environment. However, they have a tolerance zone for what environments they can regulate to. Freshwater fish already naturally absorb water and lose salts to the environment because of how much less solute is in freshwater compared to the fish's body; purer water such as RO water make the difference more extreme.

I'll admit I didn't know that RO water isn't as pure as people make it out to be. I've never used RO water.

Your sand actually helps reconstitute some of the minerals in the water, but aquarium salt could help too. But think about what TDS means: total dissolved solids. To increase the total dissolved solids you have to dissolve more solids in the water. It's not really specific to any particular kind of dissolved solid. Personally I wouldn't use that type of sand with anything but rift lake cichlids or marine fish (or anything else that needs hard water) but it could be doing you good by increasing dissolved solids.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I know a tiny fraction of what experts know here and am often corrected even in "what I know", thankfully. See, I was wrong about the beef heart.

TDS meters can be inexpensive, like $50 from something like petsolutions.com. However, I cannot vouch for their accuracy. I can vouch for the accuracy of expensive ($300), old-style "mechanical" (as opposed to digital) TDS meters that are used by reputable professionals that install and handle RO systems. You may find them in your yellow pages. It's a simple quick test that they may even run for free for you.

Still, it appears your substrate leaches solids into your water, so I don't think your situation requires immediate action. IMO, just a prudent practice and an opportunity for learning.

[fish 4 life]

Oh okay cool yeah thats a lot of work to test it So i can just keep doing what i am doing? changing 5 gallons of water a week with RO water? Like i said before i would use tap water but it has way to much ammonia and not worth treating... So you think my cats will be okay in the long run?

Thanks!!!

[Viktor Jarikov]

I didn't mean to create an impression of much work, sorry. I'd just get a TDS measure of the tank water (not RO) once a month and keep an eye/measure pH like once in 2 weeks because at some point your substrate will begin to be depleted (pH will start dropping). At a minimum, keep an eye on pH.

There are also many simple physical (aging, purging), chemical (oxidation), and bio-chemical (microbial, as you know) ways to rid of ammonia in your tap water. What do you mean by tap water? Is it municipal (usually chlorine or chloramine treated) or a well water?

[fish 4 life]

So you think I should buy a TDS testing kit for my tank? And my tap water is just from the sink yeah it has a little but of chlorine and a lot of ammonia. I got some ammonia and chlorine safe but the ammonia still testes high after I use it. Also it is super easy for me to use RO water because I live close to a RO water despencer..

[Shane]

I would not invest in a TDS meter if I were you. Just a simple General Hardness test should be all you need.

I got some ammonia and chlorine safe but the ammonia still testes high after I use it.

I'll bet that your ammonia test kit is "hitting" on the chloramine in your tap water and not actual ammonia. Chloramine is one of the most commonly used water treatments and is an ammonia derivative. You should be able to look up your local water authority on the web and get the most up to date readings for your area as well as what chemical(s) they are treating with.

You can keep using RO. I would just recommend using it mixed in a ratio with your tap water that gets you the water parameters you are looking for.

-Shane

[fish 4 life]

Okay cool so I can buy a hardness test at my lfs? What is a good hardness for my cats?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Sorry, can't readily help you with those questions. Just thought I'd mention that it is unclear from the foregoing exchange (to me; maybe because English is not my native language and I am easily confused) that you understand you need to treat your tap water with a dechlorinator, which also gets rid of chloramine but just at a bit higher concentration. You do know about dechlorinators and how to use them, right?

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... chloramine

[fish 4 life]

Yeah i know about dechlorinator. I have tried to use them but the ammonia in the tap water does not go away... So i just use RO water