New RTC pond.

[gdc7688]

This is my new RTC pond officially up and running. Filtration is temporarily held by an external filter. The filter media will be installed this monday

[racoll]

This big!



Click the link for

Phractocephalus hemioliopterus

for sizes. You can expect a metre+ (total length) with good care.

Nice pond. I assume it's indoors?

[gdc7688]

OH WOW!
That is huge! I don't think my RTC's are fed a proper diet though. They eat goldfish, some shrimp occasionally and 80% of the time koi pellets.
I can't find any cat fish pellets on the market that are large or last long enough to feed my RTC's. Any suggestions?

And nope. My pond is outdoors in full sun light. I think the plants are doing a good job because i have perfect water readings and no green water problems.

Where it begins, water pumped from my koi pond to the smaller goldfish pond


Water flows by gravity through the stream (vege filter)


And finally into the 'big' pond

[racoll]

That's a really cool set-up.

How do you keep them warm enough over winter?

[bigbird]

wow very nice setup indeed. cheers jk

[MatsP]

I agree that's a cool setup, and I'm sort of wondering - your location says United Kingdom, but I expect this isn't a photo of a pond in England, the architecture and plants don't look typical English/British?

Chris Ralph, who writes for Practical Fishkeeping magazine amongst other things, has posted here (under the name of Dorad or some such) that he's seen one that was 5ft long, and that was with the head missing! So yes, they do grow fairly large.

I don't think Koi food is particularly bad for this fish, as long as it's supplemented with a bit of more meaty food - in nature, they aren't strict predators, they will eat just about anything.

--
Mats

[gdc7688]

Hi,

Yeah you guessed right, I will be going back and forth from the UK and my home country Malaysia over the next few years. Of course I will be in UK 90% of the time. A gardener maintains the pond and my sister feeds the fish when I am not around. My dad does help me clean the sponge filters when he is back in Malaysia. (also an expat)

I accidentally discovered how good the vege filtration was when my UV filter broke down and realized the water was exactly the same in clarity. Thank goodness we don't have winter in the tropics. Cost to maintain the whole pond is real low.

I will be returning to Malaysia in July and will embark on a new project to redo the feature wall. I intend to install a more powerful pump and a Bakki shower behind the feature wall as the fish are growing rapidly.

Thx for your advice on the koi food. But I notice the RTC's have grown much slowly after hitting 60cm++. Is this something that is to be expected?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Yes. RTCs and some other big predators grow out quickly at the beginning to increase the survival chances. After 2', they slow down a lot. Some say cats never stop growing, they just slow down. To get to 5'-6' mark your fish should have good genes and diet/keeping conditions and it would take perhaps 10-20 years. Statistically, I'd guess your fish will not outgrow 4'-4.5' mark and it will take them 7-10 years to get close to those #'s.

Cool water set-up. Is it really in full sun? I'd never thought you stand a chance to keep green algae (pea soup) from messing up the water clarity with just a veggie filter - plants do not take up enough nutrients and there is plenty still left in the return water for the algae to feed on. Algae need three things:

-- warth
-- sun light
-- nutruients

IME, I had to eliminate sun light by using floating plants covering 90% of water surface or UV clarifier, the latter works hands down better.

Good luck.

Viktor

[gdc7688]

Hi Viktor,

Thx for the information. I have used floating plants in my previous pond (at the old house)and experienced little success with them. I notice there is a mass die off after a growth spurt which results in very polluted water if not removed promptly. I always believe that maintenance for pond keeping should be kept minimal especially for my case as I am not home most of the time.

I noticed that my vege filter is significantly larger then most of those you can find online. That is 12 meters of stream filled with all sorts of plants! Also, there is elodea in the entire length of the stream.

just to give you a clear picture, the following pictures show different parts of the stream. I must admit running water can no longer be seen but then again, its a sacrifice im willing to make!

Gerard.

[bigbird]

still a great set up. Agree it is a bonus with the warm water. I used to live in brasil for 5 years and for fishkeeping it was great. cheers jk

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanx for sharing, Gerard. What's the volume of the pond and of the veggie stream and how many gal an hour are you turning?

[gdc7688]

Hi Viktor,

I must admit I dont really know. I just drew up a design and gave it to a contractor to build. That is why i ended up with a tiny filter that can't do much.
A rough guess would be around 6000 gallons including the goldfish pond. The stream is about 2 feet wide and contains about 1 half inches of water throughout. I made some catchment areas to grow elodea (about 2 inches deep. The base of the stream is filled with polished pebble which i suspect contributes to the clean water because it provides additional surface area for beneficial bacteria to grow. The roots of the plants provide oxygen further encouraging more bacteria growth.

I do not know how many gallons of water I am turning in but my pump is about 0.6hp. I intend to replace with a much more powerful pump soon for bakki shower filtration. At the moment, I have 2 outlets feeding the stream with water and most of the water is channeled to the gold fish pond water spout.

[Viktor Jarikov]

well, your veggie filter is outstandingly long but also very, very shallow

don't get me wrong, please - I trust what you are saying

the only clear conclusion for me is that your filter cleans the water of minerals just superbly because you have warmth, you have sun light, and you have clear water => hence, the return water is close to RO water when it comes to major algae nutrients

I'd guess a TDS measurement of the water before and after the filter could give a good sense of its efficiency (in terms of nutrient removal - i'm not focusing on the nitrification issues which you are addressing also)

[gdc7688]

To tell you the truth I don't understand half of what you said.. HAHA!
That shows what kind of person I am really. Reckless and clueless.

But as far as the filter is concerned, all there is beneath those wooden planks are :
1 layer of japanese mat
2 layers of black sponge mat
about 2 bags of lava rock and ceramic material.
I had to create a bypass because the filters get clogged too easily due to the amount of waste produced by the fish.
I will test the water as u suggested when I'm back home. Quite interested to see the results.

Also, here is a full list of the fish I have in the ponds.

Main Pond:
1 common pleco which is about 2 feet long
1 dark brown walking catfish (which my friend rescued from a drying fountain). (about 1 feet++)
2 RTC's
9 carps
a gazillion guppies (wild variety) The fish cannot catch them as they are perfectly camouflaged with the dark surfaces of the pond.
as you can guess, ended up multiplying.

Goldfish pond:
Angel fish (1)
Oscar (1)
Long fin carp (4)
Comet gold fish (8)
Variety of gouramis (8)
red parrots (4)

River:
guppies especially the babies
(loads!) of ramshorn snails (they are good in eating up dead leafs)and get eaten the minute they intrude either pond.
frogs(seasonal) and toads (everyday) which are frankly irritating at night.
Tadpoles (i try to clear the eggs before they hatch)
Used to have red platies but they were all caught and eaten by my neighbors cat (caught it in the act multiple times!)

[MatsP]

Just moved this to "South American Catfishss (Everything else)", as that's where it belongs - didn't notice until this morning that it was in the wrong place.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

wow, what an excellent list! I have guppies here in Florida living, procreating and thriving in the ponds with catfish

I guess it was rather my poor wording. I meant to say that for the algae to thrive they need warmth, sun, and nutrients - your nitrates, phosphates, potassium, etc. Since you do have the first two - warmth and sun - but your water is still far from green soup, it must be that your plants uptake almost all the nutrients.

Is this better?

[gdc7688]

Yeah! i do understand now. Thanks for clarifying.
I can't wait to return home.
I intend to add 2 shovelnose catfish to my collection after the bakki shower is installed.

*Will also consider installing an emergency air pump in the main pond. 3 of the largest carps died during a 6 hour power outage due to mantainance works. Expect more pictures from me end july!

[taksan]

If those RTC's have been in the [pond for 2 years + and are only 60-70cm then they are terribly stunted.
A RTC given proper conditions should reach 90cm in 2 years at a minimum.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I would not argue about wording - stunt, genes, keeping conditions, whatever, but agree with Taksan. Little cute buttons RTCs usually reach 2' in about a year.

If you don't know, Taksan is one the most first-hand-experienced colleagues here, having been raising and keeping RTCs for the abouts of 30 years at his home. Try searching out his posts and see the photos and his valuable info. He kept one pair for the amazing 27 years in a 15,000 liter pond !!!!

[SeaKittenErin]

Whoa! My apologies for posting in an older thread, but I felt inclined to comment after seeing that pond. Talk about elaborate! I was actually doing a search on backyard pond installation when I happened to stumble upon this thread. I'm not sure if I'll be placing fish quite that big in a pond (as I don't have a lot of space), but that video sure was inspiring. Hopefully, I'm able to get all the decorative necessities I need. Do they sell that type of stuff (patio furniture, filters, rocks, etc) at familyleisure.com? Thanks, guys! Glad to be part of such a fun group! =D

[Viktor Jarikov]

Good to have you join, SeaKittenErin! There is plenty of info on ponds here and by all means please do ask questions (not in this thread but start your own). Be sure to check out other reputable sites with loads of pond info - e.g., waterwolves and monsterfishkeepers. For more inspiring videos, check out YouTube - you can spend days gazing at people's ponds and fish and be so inspired you'll forget to eat

I intend to add 2 shovelnose catfish to my collection after the bakki shower is installed.

I wouldn't say this is a good idea. These guys are far more predatory than RTCs. They will, sooner or later, eat or attempt to eat your koi, especially the smallest ones - and the stress of being hunted sickens and eventually kills fish. My 60-80 cm TL TSNs hunted and killed plenty of fish even of comparable length but slimer, e.g., 1.5' Jardini arowana, 1.2' bullheads, 1.5' channel cats, 2' silver arowana, etc.. None others did, not 2'-3' RTCs, not 2'-3' RTCxTSN hybrids, not 3' channel cats, not 2' Leiarius marmoratus and pictus, only TSNs appear definitely the most predatory. All of these and 40 other big fish lived in a 40' x 6' x 3' indoor pond.

another case in point, less vivid but typical: http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =7&t=33408

[gdc7688]

Sorry for my long absence. I was in the Uk for 2 years and have just got back. Glad to report that my RTC's are about 1 meter now. Anyway, have decided to build a larger pond for the 2 of them. here it is , ready in a couple of days!

[Viktor Jarikov]

Good to hear from you, Gerard. Good luck. Looking forward to your updates and photos. I am sure I am not alone.

[Scleropages]

First time seeing this thread. Wow, some great setups you have there, Gerard. I really like the vege filter. As Viktor had posted before, it must be doing a bang up job keeping the mineral & nutrient content in your water down in order to keep the water clear of algae.

Your RTC's sound like they are doing great. Looking forward to more updates from you.

My 60-80 cm TL TSNs hunted and killed plenty of fish even of comparable length but slimer, e.g., 1.5' Jardini arowana, 1.2' bullheads, 1.5' channel cats, 2' silver arowana, etc..

Wow--especially regarding the S. jardini. In my experience, Jardini aros usually dominate whatever tank/pond they are in. Very nasty fish. I took care of one that was at least 30" TL housed in a 10' x 3' footprint tank. It would either eat or beat the crap out of anything else that we tried to keep in that tank: parrot cichlids, large tinfoil barbs, oscars, pacus, large panaque. I should have tried putting a TSN in that tank. Heheh!

[gdc7688]

Thanks Scleropages for the kind words. The Vege filter was doing a good job but I had to redo the entire system as there was a leak in the main pond. My previous contractor was hopeless and I've made it a point to hire a professional this time. Very satisfied so far and I've decide to go for a more modern/simple look. The RTC pond will only hold about 1700 gallons but i hope the proper filtration system will compensate.

Thanks Viktor, i will listen to your advice and won't be getting the TSN catfish. However, I am quite concerned as my RTC's barbels were slightly damaged when they were moved to a temporary holding tank. Will it grow back? Furthermore, could you suggest a good method of moving my RTC's without causing harm to them in the future? Also, i wonder if RTC's love moving water as my contractor installed a pump for the purpose of water circulation that is rated at pumping 20000 litres/5300 gallons per hour. I tested the outlets and the flow of water was very strong.

[Scleropages]

In my experience, RTC's aren't too picky regarding water flow. As long as the water is clean, they usually do fine. My friend has kept one in a large basin under a few rack systems at his importing facility here in NJ for at least 10 years now. It has been through hell and back, multiple times. The water in the basin has a very, very slow current in it. I've also seen RTC's kept long term in tanks that have some strong current from filter outlets/powerheads. Since the flow is coming from a small source, there will be quieter parts of the tank--not quite deadspots, but less current than directly in front of the outlet/powerhead. Your fish will go where they are most comfortable. I am an advocate of providing as much water movement as your fish will tolerate. It might cost more in electricity costs, but it will help keep your water in better condition... so long as your filter has the capacity to keep up with the flow.

Being in Malaysia, have you ever looked into keeping Scleropages formosus in one of your ponds? If I lived there, I'd have one in every tank/pond. Maybe a S. inscriptus here and there to keep things from getting boring. Haha, that cracks me up. But anyway, that's just me.

[gdc7688]

Thanks for the advice. I tried keeping an arrowana once but it jumped out from the pond and vanished almost as fast as I released it in the pond! After that episode, have heard many similar horror stories including some fishes worth well over $5000 jumping out and dying. However, superstitious locals are relieved when such events occur as they believe a koi/arrowana that jumps out and subsequently dies deflects bad luck. I had a friend whose father cherished the event of his prized arrowana dying in such a way as his daughter emerged unharmed from a near fatal accident the same day. He had the fish dried and framed for a ridiculous amount of money

Can anyone confirm if my RTC's barbels will grow back?

[Viktor Jarikov]

G: The RTC pond will only hold about 1700 gallons but i hope the proper filtration system will compensate.
VJ: Remind us how big were your two previous ponds, koi+RTC and the goldfish pond? Are they gone for good?

G: Thanks Viktor, i will listen to your advice and won't be getting the TSN catfish.
VJ: I did not mean to say you should not at all. Simply from the type of fish and most importantly their size that you mentioned, I opined it might not be a good idea to throw a TSN or two in there. Now, if there were no tank mates that can fit in the TSN's mouth (or, rather, TSN cannot think he can fit them in his mouth, I should say - sometimes they are like humans with eyes larger than their stomach)... so read "cannot fit in the TSN's mouth with a good margin of safety"... then, I do not see a problem, except, if I recall correctly, your pond was a bit too small even for your RTCs.

G: However, I am quite concerned as my RTC's barbels were slightly damaged when they were moved to a temporary holding tank. Will it grow back?
VJ: Catfish' barbels and fins are constantly damaged in the wild and often in captivity, they usually grow back just fine unless too big a portion was damaged or they contract an infection like fin rot and it is left untreated.

G: Furthermore, could you suggest a good method of moving my RTC's without causing harm to them in the future?
VJ: I often would use soft cloth, like a pillow case. For your 1-meter RTCs, it'd have to be a blanket case same idea only blanket size (Americans never have these but all post-soviets know what that is). Anyhow, one can use a bed sheet or an extremely big and strong aqua-sock (the type of net, like a landing net but with a soft section in the middle and an opening in the end. One may try to anesthetize the fish a little with say clove oil but one has to be well-experienced with it or risk overdosing/losing the fish.

G: Also, i wonder if RTC's love moving water as my contractor installed a pump for the purpose of water circulation that is rated at pumping 20000 litres/5300 gallons per hour. I tested the outlets and the flow of water was very strong.
VJ: Scleropages gave a nice answer above. My RTCs didn't care for the flow but it will surely make for as clean water as it can be, coupled with an appropriate monster bio-filter and water changes.

[Scleropages]

VJ: I often would use soft cloth, like a pillow case. For your 1-meter RTCs, it'd have to be a blanket case same idea only blanket size (Americans never have these but all post-soviets know what that is). Anyhow, one can use a bed sheet or an extremely big and strong aqua-sock (the type of net, like a landing net but with a soft section in the middle and an opening in the end. One may try to anesthetize the fish a little with say clove oil but one has to be well-experienced with it or risk overdosing/losing the fish.

Viktor, you're talking about a duvet cover, yes? Some of us Americans do know what that is. I'd say don't use one of those mainly because of the zipper--it's something that can cause abrasions on the fish. I would recommend just using a king or queen sized bed sheet. Tranquilizers really aren't necessary as long as you can catch the fish in the sheet, grab all the corners, and close the sheet quickly. You can probably spread the sheet across the bottom of the pond, coax the catfish over it, and then grab the corners. Maybe even tie line to each corner. Once you block off the light, most fish will give up the fight.

Of course, if the blanket case you are talking about doesn't have a zipper on it, then that sounds like a good bet for moving a large catfish.

Gerard, thanks for sharing your experiences with arowanas. There is quite a bit of lore associated with them, eh?

[Birger]

Scleropages - please, that was one persons rant...if you keep repeating it over and over you are playing at the same game, do us all a favor and please drop it. Notice I did not quote it so it is repeated yet again.

Please carry on with the thread...

Birger