I needs some help - I think my butterfly pleco is sick

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 10 May 2012, 08:58

Hi I'm wondering if anyone can help me, I'm new to this forum. I recently bought 2 mature butterfly plecos and they seemed to be happy in the tank.
Now I've realized that one of the plecos hasn't moved from the rock he's been on for about 3 days. His fins are up and his stomach looks bloated and his eyes are bulging.
Does anyone know what could be wrong?
parameters:
PH 6.8
ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
350 Litre tank
27 degrees celcius

If anyone can help that would be great.

Andrew .

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 10 May 2012, 10:20

Hi Andrew,
If he is fanning his pectoral fins like crazy, then he could be on eggs.
The angels will get most of the fry, or the eggs, no question.
The good news is that if they spawned once they will do it again.
To be fair laying the eggs on a rock seems a bit odd to me, I'm not saying impossible, just seems a bit odd?
If you could upload a photo that would be good. Would hate for the fish to be sick, and you wait for fry to hatch, but instead the fish is sick......
If he is just sitting there with his fins out, is he breathing?
Adding a cave of a few caves would be good.

Cheers

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 10 May 2012, 10:54

Thanks for replying Geoff,

I tried taking a photo, but he's too far at the back to get any decent clarity. It's alive though it is looking a bit bloated and it's eyes are a bit googly (but I've seen them like this before).
It is fanning it's front fins at about 1 beat per second and its dorsal fin is upright.
It really looks like its belly has swelled up or it is arching to hide something under it's belly. I wish I could show a photo.
So if I get a a pleco cave you think I might get better success? Will angels still eat them or will they stay in the cave until they are big enough?
Cheers

Andrew

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 10 May 2012, 11:37

Hi Andrew,
To be fair I'm not totally convinced there are eggs.
I would be inclined to get a net, and try and shoo the fish away from where he is sitting.
Then you will see the eggs if they are there.
If there are eggs there, he will get back to them pretty quick.
.if there are not eggs there then his behaviour is stress related.

Either way I would be inclined to put some more caves, or wood, or anything for the plecs to hide in.
There is a post http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... f=5&t=4305 that has all the questions that you want to consider, and when the northern hemisphere folks start to come on line, they will ask all these if they think the fish is sick.

So first, move the fish to confirm if there are eggs, and then we will be better placed to help, either way.

If there are no eggs then I think it is a stress situation, and listing the parameters from the attached post, and also the other fish in the tank will help. Also if you edit the title in your original post (if there are no eggs) to be about a stressed fish, then the right people will assist you.

Cheers

Geoff.

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 10 May 2012, 12:54

This fish looks sick to me - the eyes look to be really bulging out. The cause of this could be dropsy or popeye or a number of other things actually.

The best way forward is to isolate the fish, increase aeration and treat with something antibacterial as a start and make sure the water is in tip top condition.

Did the fish come like this? If so it was problematic to begin with, if it has developed then perhaps there is something within your setup that has affected it...

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 10 May 2012, 13:33

Thanks Richard,

I can't really isolate the fish as I have no where else to put it. I did a bit of research and it looks like it might have bloat and/or popeye which could be bacterial or due to bad water or maybe worms. I will start tomorrow doing water changes daily and dosing it in epsom salt treatments twice daily and see if that works. Let's hope the poor bugger last the night.

Thanks

Andrew

Zeno · Post by **Zeno** » 10 May 2012, 16:44

I can't judge on this photo.
Salt treatments are against parasites.
Maybe there is a secondary bacterial infection.
When you have doubts; antibiotics are strongly recommended.

Greetz, Zeno

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 13 May 2012, 23:40

I've been treating him for about 2- 3 days now. I'm doing dunks in a bucket twice a day with Epsom salt and antibiotics as I don't have a separate tank for him. So far doesn't look any different. His stomach is very bloated and his scales are looking bad even coming off in areas. His eyes, while not as swollen anymore are still cloudy.

I still haven't seen him do a poo at all.

I definitely think its Bloat from what I've been reading which is caused from stress. The tank is otherwise fine though and all the other fish are looking well.

I might take some photos tonight. I'll let you know how I go.

Andrew

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 15 May 2012, 10:59

I've been treating for about 4 days now and I've noticed the pleco has done it's first poo which is brown in colour. He's still very bloated but seems a bit more alert. I've noticed that the other fish in the tank are doing white stingy poos so I will have to treat the whole tank with Meds. Not sure how they got parasites as I haven't introduced any new fish. Does anyone know how this happens?

Cheers.

Andrew

Richard B · Post by **Richard B** » 15 May 2012, 12:35

andy77aus wrote: Not sure how they got parasites as I haven't introduced any new fish. Does anyone know how this happens?

Cheers.

Andrew

If one fish you own has them, they may well be water-bourne and therefore easily passed on

zeebo · Post by **zeebo** » 16 May 2012, 05:41

also, while treating him, can you try to feed him peas, that sometimes aids in helping reduce bloat,along with the meds. You can use frozen peas, put in water and nuke in microwave for a minute, cool them, remove the skin ,it just pops off, and the pea halves can be dropped in the tank at night, try to drop them near him so he has a chance to eat them, other fish love peas too,so try to be sure he gets some. HTH ,good luck Georgie

Zeno · Post by **Zeno** » 16 May 2012, 07:05

Sorry I was not following the discussion the last few days.
You can't treat them together with salt and antibiotics because salt is quite aggressive and so your antbiotics will not work the same way they normally do.

Greetz, Zeno

Firestorming · Post by **Firestorming** » 16 May 2012, 21:57

Mate, I have had L168/L052 do this exact same thing after many years of perfect health and multiple spawnings. No matter what I have tried once they started to get the protruding eyes I lost them. I have never had it with any juvies in the tank, it was always the fully mature ones, and never in a group has more than one fish had it at the same time, in fact looking back over my records of losses, no two fish with these symptoms died within 7 months of each other. Also I have never had it with any other species, just tese guys.
Best of luck, hope you can find a way to sort it out.

Flyfisher · Post by **Flyfisher** » 16 May 2012, 23:17

Hi
I recently lost a plec to bloat. I tried peas and thought it made a bit of a difference but then the bloat seemed to suddenly get worse. I've read and heard that metronidazole antibiotic is worth a try. But in the UK it's a prescription drug. I couldn't even get an appointment with the GP for an L123 pleco nevermind the drug to treat him

I wish you better luck,
Gavin

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 17 May 2012, 11:03

I've been treating him for about 6 days now and He's only looking worse. I actually can't believe he's lasted this long. I've pretty much tried everything salt, antibiotics, pimafix, water changes etc. I think I will knock him on the head tomorrow if he's not looking better, it's just doing my head in! And now I've found out I've got a comollanus worm infestation in my tank, and I'm having to treat that as well.

Thanks for all your help!

Andrew

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 17 May 2012, 21:06

Hi Andy,
At this point I would stop the other treatments, do a water change and just treat for the comollanus worms.
I'm a little surprised that the fish is still alive.
With the discovery of the worms, then this is possibly the root cause, and may be the best course of treatment.

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 18 May 2012, 08:28

RIP pleco

I knocked him on the head. He was too far gone. Bit disappointing I paid $100.00 for him.

krazyGeoff · Post by **krazyGeoff** » 18 May 2012, 08:41

I appreciate your pain, prices in Aussie and here are not cheap..

andy77aus · Post by **andy77aus** » 18 May 2012, 10:26

Thanks,

On a brighter note, I think i have sorted out my camallanus infestation. My fish pooped them out and are all looking good Will do follow up treatments.

Cheers,

Andrew