Baby mekong catfish? can anyone id please

[mjj4307]

250x335x1_289109.jpg (46.77 KiB) Viewed 7073 times

Hi,just bought this fish as a baby mekong catfish

250x335x1_289109.jpg

but im not so sure

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/down ... ew&id=9294

they look very similar to pengasius/shark cat fish

the pic isnt very good i know- i will try upload a better one as soon as i can.

does anyone know how to make a positive i.d. of a baby Mekong

ive looked on the net and there is hardly any photos of small ones- just 10ft monsters!!

Thanks Max

[Silurus]

Sorry, but this is

Pangasianodon hypophthalmus

.

[mjj4307]

I dont think anyone can give a 100% positive id from this picture

the pic is from the advert from the guy i bought it off. I have a professional slr camera- i will get some accurate pics tomorrow

[Dave Rinaldo]

I dont think anyone can give a 100% positive id from this picture

Hmmm....Silurus is Ichthyologist Dr Heok Hee Ng.

[mjj4307]

I dont think anyone can give a 100% positive id from this picture

Hmmm....Silurus is Ichthyologist Dr Heok Hee Ng.

In English please???

[Dave Rinaldo]

Sorry, but this is

Pangasianodon hypophthalmus

.

This response was written by Ichthyologist Dr Heok Hee Ng.

[Mike_Noren]

In English please???

"Yes he can."

[Richard B]

In very simple terms - the ID is given by "Silurus" who is a scientist who describes catfishes, one of the most knowledgeable people in the world on catfish - if he says it, it is.

[Dave Rinaldo]

I use the farmed fish (where your fish came from) for a blackened catfish recipe.
http://www.clovegarden.com/ingred/sf_catvnz.html

[Viktor Jarikov]

So, as I understand it, the pic is not of the fish you got so this whole thing may or may not be a moot point. It does not look a baby anyway - it has the body proportions of a sub-adult/adult Pangasianodon hypophthalmus, aka IDS, iridescent shark catfish. So, we shall await your pics.

HH is a human and can be wrong, very, very rarely when it comes to ID-ing fish from forum pics but not so with the Asian cats, which are his specialty, from what I read. He is not even an average scientist but a much known and respected leader in his field.

"Yes he can."

[mjj4307]

I think i.d shark too after seeing these pics
was just curious as it doesnt look like any of the 3 i.d sharks ive had in the past
thanks for the previous comments.

cant upload files too big!!-

can see on mfk -


http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forum ... ease/page2

[mjj4307]

these are a few pics - i think i.d shark

[mjj4307]

Im unsure what to do now. i can get my money back or maybe wait a month and observe changes/ eating habits/ size gain etc and maybe hope fore the best.
if no one has a picture of a same size real mekong i cant see how it is possible to make a 100% judgement that it isnt?
yes there are loads of pics of i.d sharks and i will agree they do look similar, but ive 3 id sharks before and this fish is different to them.
I paid £50 for the fish- which as an id shark is expensive, but if i can wait a month and then still get my money back if im not convinced then that might be the best option

[Suckermouth]

if no one has a picture of a same size real mekong i cant see how it is possible to make a 100% judgement that it isnt?

There's one thing better than pictures, and that's seeing the real thing. Silurus (Heok Hee Ng), who is a specalist in Asian catfishes, has likely seen real Mekong giant catfish at all sorts of sizes. Suffice to say, he really knows his catfishes.

I'll admit that the new pictures look different from the first picture you posted, so perhaps there'll be something different to say about them. Still, I find it unlikely that you would get a true Mekong giant catfish. This species is CITES protected, making import and export a bureaucratic nightmare.

[Birger]

if no one has a picture of a same size real mekong i cant see how it is possible to make a 100% judgement that it isnt?

Here is what I see and you can also make the comparison yorself.

A real tell seems to be the placement of the eyes, I think there is a difference.

This fish in the link is leucistic but still a small juvenile as would be yours if it were a one of these...look at the placement of the eye how low it sits compared to the mouth and snout http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/im ... ge_id=6137
Ideal would be If you could get a shot at the same angle I suspect the eyes on your fish may very well sit noticably higher.

I hope this helps

Birger

[racoll]

I paid £50 for the fish

£50!!! I'm afraid it's worth about £5.

Iridescent Shark

are mass farmed food fish. In fact you can buy them in Tescos!

I would take it back immediately and spend the money on something more appropriate for life an aquarium. No pangasiids are at all suitable to be kept in a home fish tank, especially the

Giant Mekong Catfish

. Is that the species you thought you were buying?

As Suckermouth said, they're CITES protected, so completely illegal to trade under international law without certificates. They also grow to 3 metres long, so you'll need a rather large aquarium!

[amiidae]

Some mid size Mekong Giant Catfish in S'pore.

[medaka]

HI Max

I paid £50 for the fish-

Really saddened to hear that you have paid such a exceedingly large sum here in the UK; for something that is really quite inexpensive.
These type of catfish as well as being found in some supermarket branches, are found across the UK in quite a few local fish markets, I saw some recently for sale on a fish stall in Sheffield market.
These are also being sold as either "battered cobbler" or are just labeled up as "fish" in quite a few fish & chips shops, as they are for the shop a cheaper option than Haddock or Cod, although they cost the same to the hungry customer.
BTW on a lot of extensively fish farmed catfish, the caudal fin is usually quite un-similar looking and weak, when compared to wild caught specimens. This weakness is also true on farmed fish like Salmon. BTW the easiest way to tell a farmed salmon from a wild caught one, is to hold them with one hand around the caudal peduncle, if the fish slides through your hand than its fish farmed, if not it is a wild caught one.

[Viktor Jarikov]

I'll admit that the new pictures look different from the first picture you posted, so perhaps there'll be something different to say about them.

I agree with Milton. To me, it looks somewhat different. Max, I think you led us on a wild goose chase with the first pic

Birger still can be right though and better shots or Cat-elog-like angled shots are needed.

As the ID is not easy/obvious, it is common to find contaminants in the shipments of groups of many fish. Maybe it happened here too. I do hope it is a real Giant Mekong Catfish and if it is I hope it finds a way into a local Public Aquarium where it'd be a star for attraction and education.

Amiidae, thanks for the nice, moving video.

More pics and Silurus and other experts new input is needed, IMO.

[Viktor Jarikov]

You have a lot more pics on the MFK thread including ones at the right angle. So I must amend my statement above: you got an IDS. I think you should return it and get your 50 pounds back.

BTW: I am not sure if non-MFK members can see pics on MFK. Or is it Waterwolves? Or both? I don't remember. So, Max, if you'd like 100% surety, please repost all the pics here, especially the ones with the nice, flat side view. Just like Birger says: the eye sits clearly higher than in Giant Mekong dream-fish.

[racoll]

I'm not sure why the identification is contentious? Even I can tell clearly that it's

Pangasianodon hypophthalmus

, and I don't have a fraction of Silurus' experience with Asian catfishes.

[mjj4307]

Hi,

In reply to a few of the members- i have had 3 i.d sharks so i know what they look like, and i also know they are only worth £5. But this one looked different, thats why i bought it- knowing i could take it back anyway.
you pay your money you take your chances. if it was a genuine baby giant mekong , then it would be worth £££!!\
So from my point of view i was in a no lose situation.
I didnt realize they are that rare that i cant find 1 single photo of a real baby mekong at that size.

The original photo was the ad pic from they guy who i bought it off- i presume from his i-phone

Unfortunately on here you can only upload 3 photos no more than 4mb. The 10 i took were all 5mb+, so after downsizing you lose quality.- Thats why i redirected to monster fish keepers where i displayed all 10 in full quality.
Ill will put 3 more on now.

[mjj4307]

Im not disagreeing with anyone but judging from my past experiences with i.d sharks i thought i might have got a steel!!

If everyone is in complete agreement that it is a i.d then i will accept the fact as i am by no means an expert like many of the members on here and take it back.

Or i could see how it develops over the next month and still take it back if im not happy

The fish are so fast its hard to get the perfect photo, even tho i have the pro camera equipment.

The only way would be to net the fish and take photos out of the water?

[Viktor Jarikov]

Max, I think every one here thinks it is an IDS. Moreover, everyone on MFK told you it is an IDS. If no one writes here after this post anything different, you can rest assured everyone thinks it is an IDS.

Racoll, you are right. I misinterpreted the OP's words and was thinking the OP pic was of a different fish. Had I realized it was one and the same fish, then I'd realize Silurus already said all that was needed. Sorry.

I dont think anyone can give a 100% positive id from this picture. the pic is from the advert from the guy i bought it off.

I wrongly assumed "the guy" (must be a LFS) wouldn't bother taking a pic of an actual fish.

[mjj4307]

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O.k fair enough.

The guy i bought it off is a private seller who can get rare fish which is what im after.
He is chinese- so ive asked him if he can get chinese perch or Elopichthys bambusa.
He had this rare beautiful bass which ive not seen before but it sold by the time i could make an offer-£ 250 sold for at 2ft- which would have gone perfect with my 2ft temenisis peacock bass

[oct_86]

How about this one? is this a baby mekong? it has a paler grey skin. i hope it is not a basa fish/ Pangasius bocourti.

[Silurus]

Looks like

Pangasianodon hypophthalmus

, I'm afraid.

[Alf Alf]

Hello to all,
I'm Alf. Hopefully nobody will beat me when I use this older topic for a new but similar question to the one above.

From a professional dealer I got an offer for a pair of "Pangasianodon gigas". A dream of me since a decade, after keeping some other species of the genus Pangasianodon and Pangasius since some years. Don't worry, dear friends, I have the right place and a quite good theoretical knowledge about keeping these catfishes, I guess, hehe. But to be honest, I never had one in my hands. And like the user "mjj4307" I searched for photos of very young giants. I found only a handful. And I got doubts.

The photos and videos, I got from the said dealer, which are from his beloved and sadly unnamed supplier, are really not in a quality to ID this guys 100%. At least for me. And this supposedly international well known supplier is angry about my doubts and is not willing to send more photos (what strengths my doubts). But only the possibility to get this fish, makes me going on. That's why I hope some of you (I have someone special in mind and that's why I'm writing here) would be so kind and look at the following photos and videos and could tell me, that these are (no) Pangasianodon gigas.

Thank you very much in advance.

Oh, I see now that .MOV files are not attachable here. I try to convert and upload later. By then, two "miserable" photos only.

[Alf Alf]

I had to upload the videos on a free temporary server (guess no video attachment allowed here and BB-Code only for YT):

https://vid.me/seX4
https://vid.me/SiuS

They are 12 inches long and about 1 year old. In their natural habitat they can grow in the first year up to 4 kilo!

[Silurus]

My take is that those are iridescent sharks (

Pangasianodon hypophthalmus

) rather than Mekong giant catfish.