spawning cave for foot long blue eyes

[Yann]

The problem is we don't know much about their reproductive behaviour in the wild, only that adults and juvenils and subadults are not found in the same biotope.

I am pretty sure the hide the eggs in holes...but possibly not as big as we might think...probably use their body as well to protect their offspring!!

Loricariidae have highly specialised reproductive behaviour, and the morphology is often specialised in that way to protect their youngs

[Jake Adams]

is it a conifer ?

No it isn't, I definitely avoid pine trees for aquariums. On a side note, I wonder how much the type of wood may affect the conditioning and breeding stimulus of the fish. I wouldn't be surprised if a particular type of wood was more suitable for use a spawning medium.

[Jake Adams]

If a panaque should spawn in a hole they would be very big.
I don't believe that they spawn in holes.

The uncertainty of what Panaques spawn in is why I am going to build the log-cave into a hybrid gazebo-cave. The far-end of the log will be placed against the internal overflow box to close off one end. Additionally, when I reform the two halves of the log cave (with giant zip ties like Shane mentioned), I am going to wedge a couple small pieces of wood on the side edges, so that the log-cave is basically part cave, and part two-pieces-of-wood-close-together. Does that make sense? This way the log-cave will have slits on the side to give more elbow room for the Panaque's pectoral fins. I feel that this design will be hedging my bets between a hollowed out log and a tight space between two logs, which is what I believe would be the blue eye's choices in the wild.

[2wheelsx2]

This is going to be a neat study. I have what I think is a small 9" male and was wondering if there has been any observations of the size at sexual maturity.

Yours are both about 12" Long? I agree with the others; in the instances where I have seenmore than onein a tank, the results were disastrous. So the fact yours get along is a great sign.

[Jake Adams]

Yours are both about 12" Long?

The "male" is 13 and the "female" is 11". The smaller specimen with the feminine behavior has been in captivity for a documented 15 yrs, at which time it was only 3-4". I gather that my "pair" is going on about 20 yrs old, give or take.

If you believe that there are two species of blue eye plecos, then my two are both "vintage" blue eye pleco Panaque cochliodon, supposedly distinct from the P. suttonorum imported the last few years from a different collection area; at least that's what I've been told.

[2wheelsx2]

If you believe that there are two species of blue eye plecos, then my two are both "vintage" blue eye pleco Panaque cochliodon, supposedly distinct from the P. suttonorum imported the last few years from a different collection area; at least that's what I've been told.

Yes, mine is also what's considered a

Panaque cochliodon

and looks identical to your 2. Fascinating that the female was captured at 4" or so. I hadn't even seen one so small. I guess I have a few years to go before mine reaches 12".

[Narwhal72]

has no one ever wondered why there's never been found big holes in the river banks ??

If a panaque should spawn in a hole they would be very big.
I don't believe that they spawn in holes.

Actually there are large holes in the river banks in the Amazon. During the dry season birds such as kingfishers use the holes as nests and the larger holes are used by otters. In the wet season the holes are flooded and plecos and cichlids use them as nests.

I don't have a picture of this and couldn't find a good one in a quick google search but I have seen photos in a number of speaker presentations over the years.

Andy

[rob rensen]

There's no proof that those big holes are made by panaque's.

[Bas Pels]

We do know Pterogoblichthys digs holes and lives in the Amazon river

So any hole found can be regarded as belonging to Ptegogoblichthys and if no holes are found, than we know these holes don't last long

Whether Panaque digs? I could not say. Perhaps they hollow out a log, lay eggs and the fry starts eating their cave. Stranger things happen

[Richard B]

Fascinating that the female was captured at 4" or so. I hadn't even seen on so small.

Way back in the day, here in the UK they were often seen at 3" TL & if i remember rightly, the one i bought cost £19.99 - how times have changed!!!

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Just to say that I have no practical experience of any large Loricariid, breeding or otherwise, but,

Perhaps they hollow out a log, lay eggs and the fry starts eating their cave. Stranger things happen

would be my guess as well. I think this partially because something like a palm trunk would naturally form a circular depression as it decayed, and provide an opening that the male could work on, and partially because these fish have an impressive dentition of wood processing teeth, and process a huge amount of wood to get the food they need <http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... an#p241856> & <http://german.bio.uci.edu/remnants.html>.

My understanding is that these fish are living and feeding amongst sunken large woody debris, often in semi-permanent wood jams and snags.

Combine this habitat,

with the necessary tools for wooden cave construction,
closely related fish that preferentially spawn in caves
and male parental care

and a defensible wooden "cave", made the dimensions, and in the location that the males chooses, would seem the most likely spawning site. The huge size of the fish isn't a problem either, as there will be plenty of fallen wood big enough for the biggest Panaque.

If you use the terrestrial analogy of Parrots and Woodpeckers, they have the equipment to process wood, and are almost exclusively hole nesting.

cheers Darrel

[nvcichlids]

i remember back in the day when you could find 3-4"ers for like $25-30.. I contemplated buying a bunch when i was 14 with a years worth of saving allowances.. just never did and regret it now..

[Jake Adams]

Aw crap! I put the log-cave in the tank and it's been vacant for three days now, which I expected. But just this afternoon the 'male' was checking it out when he got cock-blocked by a grumpy 6" triactis pleco who just found the cave to his liking. Gonna make a different cave for the tractis pleco and if he doesn't straighten up he's gonna get rehomed with the quickness.

Additionally, I've been feeding very generously the last two months, lot more good fresh foods and new wood and now the 'female' is definitely putting on weight. Both blue eyes are showing less aggression than they ever have, perching near each other more than before. Keeping my fins crossed and will keep updating.

[nvcichlids]

Pretty sure if you are seriously trying to breed them you should remove all other bottom dwelling fish as they will potentially eat any eggs / fry