Panaque questions

[corielover]

Hey, I need a new pleco, and I was thinking of getting a mustard spot (panaque albomaculatus), or Clown pleco (panaque maccus). I have been doing some research, and have found a lot of controversy about the activity level and amount of algae consumption with these fish, and I was wondering if anyone could help. Thanks!

[Richard B]

If the purpose of having a pleco is algae removal, then an ancistrus is your best bet by far.

If you want a panaque then the clown is most available, smaller and cheaper - their algae eating is not as good as ancistrus but they do eat some.

[corielover]

I have tried ancistrus, but after getting six seperately and having them all die for no apparent reason, I decided to try something else. Algae removal is not the sole purpose, but it would definitely be nice. Can anyone give me some more info on activity levels? Thanks!

[MatsP]

In my experience, Panaque are probably the least active of the plecos.

And I suspect that if you can't keep Ancistrus [I'm assuming we're talking about the common

Ancistrus cf_cirrhosus

), which is about the easiest to keep of all plecos, I suspect going for "something else in case it works better" seems a bit unlikely to be a good solution.

There are only three reasons I can think of why common Ancistrus wouldn't thrive in a tank:
1. Unsuitable water conditions.
2. Unsuitable tankmates.
3. The fish are not of good stock (either unhealthy or genetically unsound).

Only #3 can possibly be fixed by "trying a different kind".

--
Mats

[corielover]

I checked the water conditions, and everything checks out. My water is very soft, but most of the sources I've seen think that it's okay for ancistrus. I had them with corys, cherry barbs, tetras, shrimp, and a juvenile burmese loach, and I did not observe any bullying or physical damage on the dead body. They have lots and lots of hiding places, and seem very happy, until they suddenly stop moving around much, and then they're dead! I have taken dead specimens to the LFS, but the verdict was always "very healthy fish, except its dead." They looked like pretty good stock to me, but I am not an expert. I have repeatedly posted about this, but nobody ever knew anything. If you or anyone else has any ideas, please please tell me! I love ancistrus, but don't want to kil anymore of the poor little guys. Thanks

[sojapat]

With regard to the ancistrus deaths ,lack of food ? agressive loach (insufficient hiding places the botia can be agressive)you dont always witness agression.
Is there much oxygen in the water .. Where is the filter outlet? Above or below the water?

[corielover]

There was a lot of algae in the tank, and I put in lettuce leaves occasionally, about once a month, and I feed Aqueon algae wafers. The filter outlet is above the water. It's a biowheel penguin 200, and it makes lots of bubbles and disturbs the top layer. Is "yawning" bad? Both my corys and ancistrus do it.

[MatsP]

It's quite difficult to identify illness/problems from descriptions. When you say the water is soft, do you have any numbers as to HOW soft? Whilst I'm not a great believer in "pH crash kills fish", it's of course possible that sustained low pH is harmful under the right circumstances.

A lettuce leaf once a month is not enough. But if you feed algae wafers every day, then that should be fine. If there is LOTS of algae in the tank after the fish has been there for a week or more [assuming sensible size fish vs tank size - expecting a 1" baby bristlenose to clean a 200 gal tank in a week may be a tad optimistic - but a 30-55g tank with a 1.5-2" fish should be clean in a week], it's clearly "the wrong kind of algae" - these fish aren't magical "eat any kind of algae that annoys you" - they eat primarily soft brown and green algae. Hair algae, spot algae, black beard algae, etc, are not consumed (it may be kept in check if you have enough Ancistrus in the tank, as they will rasp the leaves and rocks to prevent it from occupying the surfaces in the first place).

--
Mats

[jp11biod]

My Clowns are about the most boring fish I have ever owned. I never see them except when I go looking for them to make sure they are live. Then they just sit there doing nothing, fat and smug.

JS

[corielover]

My Clowns are about the most boring fish I have ever owned. I never see them except when I go looking for them to make sure they are live.

That's what I was afraid of. Mats, I don't have a test kit that includes hardness, but I used a test strip, and it looked to be around 5 dH. my pH is a steady 7.0, but I don't feed the algae wafers every day, only about three times a week, because I am super paranoid about overfeeding. Am I starving them? Also, I f you feed with the light on, will they get it, or do you have to feed with the light of?

[plecomanpat]

how often are you doing water changes? 7.0 is not soft water, it is neutral, which should be fine, for most of my pleco tanks are 7.5 and my fish thrive. As for the panaque you speak of, the LDA31 is more "challenging and Elusive than the clown...mine only emerge from the wood pile at feeding time. I think Mats is correct in his views...if you can't keep BN,s than venturing into the world of exotics is gonna be disappointing, not to mention expensive...enjoy

[Narwhal72]

Lettuce leaves are not really the best food for plecos. My personal choice is cucumber but many hobbyists also use zucchini.

Simply cut off a slice and sink it to the bottom with a lead plant weight or use a plastic lettuce clip to clip it to the side of the tank. The plecos will eat just about every bit of it. I feed my plecos Aqueon Algae wafers daily and I replace my cucumber slices whenever they are gone (every 1-3 days depending on the tank). Providing a constant diet is important with herbivorous fishes.

I have been doing this for the last 4-5 years and have spawned and raised hundreds of BN plecos, Peckoltia, and Panaque (have yet to spawn the Panaque but that is for a different reason) using this basic diet. I have found that the common BN plecos are not that sensitive to pH or hardness and will spawn in a variety of conditions easily.

Andy

[corielover]

Wow, I was looking into all these diseases, but all it was was me not feeding enough! Do you think I should get another?
Thanks so much!

[MatsP]

Probably a good idea to try a simple bristlenose before you try other, more exotic plecos, yes.

And they do eat quite a bit, so it's not impossible for them to starve...

--
Mats

[corielover]

I feel so bad! I killed six straight bristlenoses by not feeding them enough!

[MatsP]

I feel so bad! I killed six straight bristlenoses by not feeding them enough!

Unfortunately, it's bad that no one spotted this before, but unfortunately, I think this happens from time to time.

--
Mats

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have taken dead specimens to the LFS, but the verdict was always "very healthy fish, except its dead."

I would suspect low oxygen levels, much more than under-feeding.
You only need a very short time with low oxygen levels for death to ensue.

cheers Darrel

[MatsP]

Hi all,

I have taken dead specimens to the LFS, but the verdict was always "very healthy fish, except its dead."

I would suspect low oxygen levels, much more than under-feeding.
You only need a very short time with low oxygen levels for death to ensue.

cheers Darrel

Whilst I agree that low oxygen can be harmful to all kinds of fish, I would expect Ancistrus to cope at least as well as barbs and loaches.

It's a biowheel penguin 200, and it makes lots of bubbles and disturbs the top layer.

Is "yawning" bad? Both my corys and ancistrus do it.

Can you describe and discuss a bit more about that? When does this happen, what does the fish do, etc? I'm pretty sure it's harmless, but I may be thinking of some other behaviour than what you call yawning (I wouldn't call any of what my plecos and corys does as "Yawning" immediately, but I can see how someone may use that term sometimes).

--
Mats

[corielover]

When the corys yawn, they sit still for a second and then flare their gills, and open their mouths really wide. Then they go back to swimming regularly. It happens very occasionally, usually earlier or later in the day, but sometimes around 2 o'clock in the afternoon. The ancistrus did it about the same way: they would be stuck to something, and then they would lift the front part of their mouths while keeping the back part sucked on. They did it about the same times as well, but even less. Plecomanpat, I do 30% water changes every week or so.

[MatsP]

Plecos flaring their gills is more of a "threat/imposing" thing.

--
Mats

[corielover]

The pleco didn't flair the gills; that was only the cory. The pleco just lifted his front lip off of the ground. Th whole process takes about a second.