Nice bush!

[Jools]

Some horticultural advice requested!

Those of you connected with me in the twitterverse (other social networking providers are available) will know that I am currently digging up half my garden and building a new garage. It's not a fishroom project, honest!

I will post some pics, but the reason for this post is to ask about an evergreen shrub that would be good for (over the next 3-5 years) growing alongside and above a boundary wall to provide cover to about 6'.

Mr Wrasse suggested both Laurel and Thuja (and an excellent recommendation for my hitherto unknown to me but local http://www.binnyplants.com/) and to be honest I am really taken by the Laurel.

Anyone got any views, experience, alternative thoughts?

Cheers,

Jools

[Marc van Arc]

Kate!!

[Jools]

Kate!!

What?

Jools

[Marc van Arc]

Kate Bush is definitely a nice bush

[Jools]

Kate Bush is definitely a nice bush

I was not expecting that. For a man with no little gardening experience, I thought it was some Dutch name for something green and great! Anyway, thanks for your input, reminds me to get some Utah Saints on the iTunes...

Jools

[MatsP]

It's not a fishroom project, honest!

Yet! ;)

Mr Wrasse suggested both Laurel and Thuja (and an excellent recommendation for my hitherto unknown to me but local http://www.binnyplants.com/) and to be honest I am really taken by the Laurel.

Laurel sounds great.

--
Mats

[wrasse]

Hi Jools,

Don't forget I also recommended escallonia. It makes a great evergreen hedge.

When we lived in East Lothian I often walked the dogs at Seacliffe, near North Berwick... there was a stables there and the perimeter was lined with a superb escallonia hedge, about 8' high.

Escallonia 'donards seedling' and E. 'apple blossom' are good.

[Marc van Arc]

Laurel sounds great.

Don't worry, I'm not going to say Hardy

[Marc van Arc]

Seriously, would Ivy (Hedera) be an option?

[wrasse]

Ooooo! Jools that's twice in 2 days you've been called Hardy!

[sidguppy]

Holly?

it's evergreen and you can prune it
it also carries a lot of berries which the birds will love


another bush, but you got to 'fix it' to the wall would be Pyracantha or Firethorn

it keeps the leaves, except in extremely severe winters, it has massive white blooms which smell great and red berries after, which is also good on birds, especially Black Birds; they often nest in it as well!

the one drawback is that it's spiny in the nastiest way, pruning it will require gauntlets, having rhino skin or both
;)

i would never recommend Hedera.
it'll damage the wall it grows against; causing massive moist problems, fungus and on and on.
also: it'll go all wild in the garden and youll be fighting a battle against it.

Hedera is a pest in my book.

[RickE]

An evergreen Caeanothus? Some beautiful varieties around.

[Scleropages]

I second the nomination for Holly. Very hardy and very easy to grow.

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Depends which Laurel really, Cherry Laurel (Prunus laurocerasus) is problematic to prune, as you have to take whole leaves of rather than being able to clip it with shears. Portugese Laurel (Prunus lusitanica) is a better choice.

Thuja doesn't prune as well as the Laurels, but Thuja plicata makes a good hedge as long as you keep it in check. I like Sidguppy's suggestion of Holly (Ilex aquifolium) or Pyracantha, they are both good flowering shrubs and add a bit more for wildlife, Holly also has the advantage of being native. A good Holly is "JC van Tol", fairly spineless and self-fertile. Holly will cost a bit more to buy than the other suggestions.

A good deciduous hedge/shrub is Hornbeam (Carpinus betulus), it keeps its dead leaves in winter so still provides a screen.

After that it really depends how cold your winters are, and what your soil is like. Beech (Fagus sylvatica) and Yew (Taxus baccatta) are both great favourites for cold places.

If it isn't too cold I like Escallonia as suggested and Azara serrata, it has an attractive bright green ever-green leaf and yellow pom-pom flowers in May. Hardier are Osmanthus x burkwoodii another good flowering evergreen with a leaf like a small laurel leaf and tubular white scented flowers in spring. Photinia x fraseri 'Red Robin' or Elaeagnus x ebbingei "Gilt Edge" are other shrubs with a bit more interest than Laurel.

You can look them up on the RHS plant selector <http://apps.rhs.org.uk/plantselector/>

cheers Darrel

[Richard B]

Berberis - watch out for the thorns though - smaller and finer than pyracantha but dammned painful. Egg-yolk yellow flesh of the roots and branches make pruning interesting and eye catching...

[sidguppy]

Berberis....

you sure know how to put the fun in gardening, Richard



we had one at my former address and i was the gardener there.
at one time i had to move it, cause it was growing like bamboo and next to the drive way
that's a brush that can and does scratch the paint right off the car!

wish I had plate armor before I spaded it out and dragged the mother to it's new pit.
damn!

a plant from Hell

a very nice one, but still.

[Jools]

Hi All,

Firstly, many thanks for the replies. I knew Richard had some info to share, but wasn't expecting so much input. It is an insight into how newbies must see PlanetCatfish replies to have so much to do and research elsewhere before I can add much to the discussion.

So, I thought I would go read up, post pics and discuss my thoughts on as many suggestions as I could extract from above.

1. Berberis

Berberis_darwinii_shoot.jpg (34.91 KiB) Viewed 6221 times

Generally quite like this but keen to avoid having nasty sharp things in the garden simply because they are hard work to move pruned branches etc without getting hurt. Not much of a security risk where I am and there is a gate any potential wrongdoer can use that would rather circumvent climbing the wall!

2. Ivy (+Kate)

No! When we first moved into the property I spent a year reclaiming much of the garden from metres and metres of ivy. It was killing trees and literally had lifted big stones from walls while wrecking or throttling everything. I can't in good conscious plant it next to my lovely old stone wall. While a good refuge for wildlife, it also doesn't grow freestanding enough to provide the cover sought.

3. Escallonia

Now that I look this up on wikipedia, I find it's a Brazilian! This is a new genus on me, quite like it so a definite contender. Will look into it.

"Cherry Laurel"

Laurel hedging.jpg (88.1 KiB) Viewed 6212 times

Probably the front runner, quite like the reddish one although have a concern that once at height, the base might be a bit exposed looking. However, I know what I think it is, but there is a lot of them! From wikipedia:

Laurel family (Lauraceae), a group of flowering plants. The "true" laurels are three plants in the genus Laurus
Azores laurel (Laurus azorica)
Bay Laurel (Laurus nobilis), also called True Laurel
Canary bay or Canary laurel
Members of the family Lauraceae, but not "true" laurels, i.e. not members of the genus Laurus
California Laurel (Umbellularia californica)
Camphor Laurel (Cinnamomum camphora)
Plant species referred to as "laurel", but not closely related to the Lauraceae
Cherry laurel (Prunus laurocerasus), also called English Laurel
Great laurel (Rhododendron maximum)
Hedge laurel (Pittosporum erioloma)
Indian laurel (disambiguation)
Laurel sumac (Malosma laurina)
Mountain laurel (Kalmia latifolia)
New Zealand laurel (tree) (Corynocarpus laevigatus)
New Zealand laurel (shrub) (Coprosma repens)
Portugal laurel (Prunus lusitanica)
Spotted laurel (Aucuba japonica)

Holly
I have been growing holly in the garden for years and have several new trees grown from seed. So, this would be nice (and a great refuge for wildlife (BTW, had redpolls in the garden last week for the first time!)) but again the hassle of working with a spiky 8 metres of hedge seems to rule it out.

Thuja

Western Red Cedar hedging.jpg (87.62 KiB) Viewed 6212 times

Again, I like this and good for wildlife cover. However, I (sadly) have a lot of similar leylandii in the garden already and it would be a bit "samey". Although easier to work with, I think I prefer something leafy and evergreen.

That's been useful looking into these, will write more in a few days.

Cheers,

Jools

[sidguppy]

I was thinking more about your little kid (s?), romping around the garden and getting entangled in the nastiest shrubs known to man
I wouldn't plant Berberis in a garden with a toddler or a wee kiddie slightly bigger than one

;)

[Richard B]

Young children are an important consideration when considering garden plants - doesn't laurel have poisonous berries?

(for that matter don't entomologists used the fumes from shredded leaves to euthanase insects prior to 'carding' them?)

[dw1305]

Hi all,

don't entomologists used the fumes from shredded leaves to euthanase insects prior to 'carding' them?

They do, it is the hydrocyanic acid in the fruit and leaves. It is also what gives Almonds their taste and smell.

Holly also has the advantage of being native. A good Holly is "JC van Tol", fairly spineless and self-fertile.

Laurus nobilis is the Bay leaf tree, but it probably won't be hardy with you, which also applies to nearly all of the Escallonia spp. and Ceanothus spp. mentioned.

The hardiest Escallonia are "Edinensis", "Apple Blosson" and E. x langleyensis. "Autumnal Blue" is the hardiest Ceanothus.

How about Osmanthus X burkwoodii? flowering at the moment <http://www.rhs.org.uk/Gardens/Rosemoor/ ... woodii-AGM>.

cheers Darrel

[wrasse]

Jools,

Take a look at neighbours' gardens. Look for what grows well. Their established plants can also indicate the soil type.
It sounds like you are in an exposed position so you need a hedging plant that can manage that.
An evergreen hedge takes time to create. It takes them at least a year to establish, before any significant growth takes place. So if you want to have an impact from the start, it might be worth spending more to get bigger plants.

[Jools]

Hi Richard,

That's good advice. So, in terms of neighbours, there's quite a lot of beech and a lot of leylandii; several hollies in the garden look well - nothing else really. That said, most of the plants I've now learned about I recognise from the town. Problem is I'm about 210m above sea level. Here's a pic:

So, I've dropped the height of this wall by taking the roughly (badly) added stone from the top. It's now a nice 5' or so. I am going to put temporary fencing inside of the wall to give privacy and intend to grow the hedge behind (inside) that. Because of the fence, I am happy to plant and wait up to five years for something to get past the height of the reduced wall. So it will be sheltered and in shade half of the time. The soil is brilliant, dark, loamy and full of nutrients. I've dug 2m into it at parts and the loam goes about 1-2' down where it reaches rocky clay. Goodness only knows how far down the bedrock is. The garden is at least a couple of hundred years old, for much of the time it's been well tended - a tradition I intend to continue.

Cheers,

Jools

[wrasse]

Beech, leylandii and holly don't indicate the soil type to me, but they are 3 tough hedging plants.

You have a good 5' stone boundary wall, quite a length. The hedge you choose needs to be vigorous to reach 8', also I imagine it needs to grow over the top of the wall so that when you trim it... it is flush with the wall. Laurel can do that. Its also wind resistant and won't break or be deformed by snowfall.

An alternative to a hedge or fence is to build a frame for climbers. By the 3rd year you could have a mature screen of rambling rose or a strong climbing rose... serious wow factor

[apistomaster]

Calluna vulgaris (known as Common Heather, ling, or simply heather) is a nice low growing evergreen.
It grows fairly fast and makes a nice ground cover with pretty blooms of white or lavender depending on the variety.

[Jools]

Calluna vulgaris (known as Common Heather, ling, or simply heather) is a nice low growing evergreen.
It grows fairly fast and makes a nice ground cover with pretty blooms of white or lavender depending on the variety.

Thanks, but if you read the above, you'll see I need something for a hedge around 7'.

Jools

[Jools]

If it isn't too cold I like Escallonia as suggested and Azara serrata, it has an attractive bright green ever-green leaf and yellow pom-pom flowers in May. Hardier are Osmanthus x burkwoodii another good flowering evergreen with a leaf like a small laurel leaf and tubular white scented flowers in spring. Photinia x fraseri 'Red Robin' or Elaeagnus x ebbingei "Gilt Edge" are other shrubs with a bit more interest than Laurel.

I quite liked the look of Osmanthus x burkwoodii but I am not sure it would survive the "one bad winter in ten" we can have here. (It snowed last week here, but just a couple of inches that lasted a day and it is snowing unconvincingly as I write now). That post was great advice Darrel, thanks. In addition to your RHS link, I also found this:

http://www.best4hedging.co.uk/what-spec ... uation.pdf

So basically I want Yew with flowers! Seriously though, Yew is making a strong case - it doesn't matter it grows slowly - it just looks different enough from leylandii and I think I've seen it in other gardens.

A question. I've got something that looks like mini holly in the garden, it has small ~1cm2 dark green leaves and is flowering now with small clumped orange flowers. It is evergreen, anyone know what it might be?

Cheers,

Jools

Jools

[sidguppy]

how about some species of Cotoneaster?

blooms a lot, has berries, grows easily to 7', can be pruned in any shape you like, no spines and most varieties keep their leaves, especially in Scottish winters
which i think are more sogging rain and mud than extreme frost and snow, right?

[Jools]

how about some species of Cotoneaster?

It's a very common plant here, I have some in the garden and it does well and is a great source of food for wildlife. However, and it's personal taste, looking for something a bit less common and preferably leafier.

Jools

[Jools]

Shot of the garden this morning...




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wrasse]

A question. I've got something that looks like mini holly in the garden, it has small ~1cm2 dark green leaves and is flowering now with small clumped orange flowers. It is evergreen, anyone know what it might be?

Most likely a berberis, having orange flowers.
Mahonia is another prickly evergreen flowering around now, but more yellowy flowers.

During the Winter I asked our neighbour to prune a Berberis Stenophylla, it was overgrowing our garden and almost up to the bedroom window... monster of a plant. Only thing is, gold finches nest in it every year. Stupid woman cut it back to a stump!