Suggestions for calm laid back catfish?

[Sara1210]

I'm looking at setting up another tank and wondering if there are any calm placid catfish out there that's quite happy to be on his own and grow to maybe 10 to 14 inches as an adult. Like I said it will be on its own so needs for water can be built around him. One that maybe as it got older I might even be able to hand feed
Something along the lines of a red tail only much much smaller lol

Is there any such fish?

[wrasse]

Synodontis Decorus

[MatsP]

Synodontis Decorus

They do best in groups, to be honest.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

if you want a really laidback catfish, nothing tops

Bunocephalus coracoideus

when it comes to "laidback" and "calm"


just kidding

what tanksize are we talking about?

and even more important: will it be a single fish tank?
cause in the last case, you could do worse than

Cephalosilurus fowleri

it's impressive looking, it's really calm unless you starve it and it's big enough to pass the 10" size.
it also has some of the charm as the Red Tail as in: a real carnivore that hunts fish and has imposing looks.

if you like other fish around you might think about

Aguarunichthys torosus

which is harmess to other sizeable fish, but territorial to speciesmembers, so it'll do fine by itself.

smaller, with the calmness of the Banjom, but the carnivore-like attitude of the large pims is

Chaca chaca

it only feeds on live prey (fish), so be warned, in the long run, this is not an easy fish to keep.

[Sara1210]

Thanks for your ideas.

Tank size I was thinking around 200-300 litre.

I have my brackish set up in the living room but I wantthis tank in the dining room and he would be the only fish in the tank

[Richard B]

I may not be getting this right in my head but 200-300 litres doesn't sound big enough to have a footprint suitable for a fish that gets 10-14" as an adult.

Anyway

Bagroides melapterus

is a superb individual that is not too active - not sure if it would ever hand feed though

Tachysurus fulvidraco

might be a better option? although

Pseudomystus siamensis

is smaller.

Channallabes apus

would be entirely suitable but is an accquired taste & needs a tight fitting lid!

Chrysichthys ornatus

is an old school favourite, as is

Hemisynodontis membranacea

Megalonema platycephalum

is occasionally available and is a smaller member of the RTC family

Oloplotosus mariae

is a beauty that is kept by one of the regulars here at PC so might be available via a specialist retailer like Pier Aquatics in Wigan.

Finally

Pseudopimelodus bufonius

is something that might fit your requirements

[Sara1210]

Thanks for all those richard. Ill get the laptop out a little later and have a proper look into those cause there are a few there I really like the look of.

What size would you say I could put comfortably alone in a 200-300 litre tank?

[MatsP]

Thanks for all those richard. Ill get the laptop out a little later and have a proper look into those cause there are a few there I really like the look of.

What size would you say I could put comfortably alone in a 200-300 litre tank?

There is a general guideline that if the fish is L long, you need 4L x 2L x 2L tank size. So a fish that is 8" long (fully grown) needs a tank that is 32" x 16" x 16", for example. A 1ft fish would need 4' x 2' x 2'. For very active fish, this needs to be larger - for example a "Bala Shark" would do better in a tank that is 6L x 3L base and 2-3L tall [and given they grow to 1' or so, that's a pretty large tank], and for proper bottom dwellers that aren't very active (such as plecos), you could get away with the tank being a little less tall, maybe around 1.5L. On the other side of that, we have fish that are very tall - angelfish, discus, etc, which need tanks that are taller than the guideline.

It does very much depend on the fish tho'. Bigger is always better.

I find, given the above guidelines, that many tanks are too tall and long, but not wide enough - so for example a 200 liter tank may well be 4ft long, 22" tall, 12" wide - so the width of the tank dictates the max size of fish be about 6". Great if you have angelfish. Not so great for big plecos... I have tanks that are only 15 or 16" tall, but 24" wide and 48" long, for that very reason.

--
Mats

[Viktor Jarikov]

There is a big difference between 200 l and 300 l, 53 US gal and 79 US gal.

The standard 55 US gal tank has a 4' by 1' foot print. Most experts and fish keepers suggest a MINIMUM 4xL by 2xL by 2xL tank dimensions, where L is the final size of the fish. However, this is a rule of thumb, a rough guidance and hence, there may exist exceptions. If the fish is really not much of a swimmer and very inactive, then, imho, one might TRY a 55 gal for a one-footer and see how it goes. You may become convinced this is not enough and, hence, should have other options in mind/should be prepared to re-home. If there is no possibility of another larger quarters for the prospective fish, should the 55 gal turn out not enough, then I would recommend not getting the fish to start with.

I've never had Chaca chaca. On the surface, it appears that that thing does not swim at all - lies days-long buried in the substrate and awaits a prey to come by. So, maybe Chaca chaca may be the perfect example to try. From experience, I know Cephalosilurus species are like chaca but don't bury in the sand. They move slowly. Always. I have had 3. Never seen them swimming actively or, as if exercising. They look very, very impressive imho. Fiercely territorial - fine for a loner. Mine were all ~$100 at ~10" TL, available from larger LFSs or reputable web-sites.

[sidguppy]

lies days-long buried in the substrate and awaits a prey to come by

actually, it doesn't often bury itself, unless it's greatly stressed; for example when kept in an empty tank with no furniture and too much light.
some individuals might bury more often, but many Chaca's never do, unless they're disturbed

when there are a few pieces of bogwood, some leaves and some plants; Chaca will just lay there, literally adding to the woodclutter ;)

some individuals hide a lot, but others stay mobile in plain sight right against the front window
but you do need some furniture and not too much light.

also, darker substrate will help it make more comfortable, look at this one:

even in sight it's hard to spot, the camouflage is that good.
it really looks like it's just a leaf or a piece of wood.

occasionally it swims, I've seen whole tanks of Chaca swimming like very large and very slow tadpoles.
the water in that tank was fresh, so it might have triggered some migrating behavior, but all where swimming, right up to the surface.

[Richard B]

My Chaca never buried itself but i have seen them do so in conditions Sid describes. In fact mine used to spend 80% of its time at the surface hiding amongst uprooted broadleaf plants like amazon swords etc - not sure if this was natural but more a 'learned preference' but it worked really well to remove all the guppies i had!!!

Don't Cephalosilurus get a bit big??? like 3 foot...

[Viktor Jarikov]

Thanks for corrections. Good to see no one's decided to take my head off for suggesting to experiment with a foot-long fish in a 55 gal. Yet.

Cat-eLog: Apurensis 12", Fowleri 16", Nigricaudus 14". Yellowcat, our colleague member here, claims to have had a >2' fowleri. Mine three I used to have: two would not grow past 1 foot in 1 years time, one was growing noticeably fast past 1 foot for sure (no further experience - lost all three in my move). Wolfgang Ros' ID-ing of my three appears in sharp contrast to the Cat-eLog images. As I suggested about a year ago or more, this genus is an enigma to me when it comes to IDs and imho, needs serious work by an expert.

[racoll]

If the tank were wide enough, what about a group of

Pimelodus

or

Sorubim

?

Both would be more active than some of the more sedentary catfishes already mentioned. But having said that, I am not exactly sure what you are after exactly.

Suggestions for calm laid back catfish?

Something along the lines of a red tail only much much smaller

I would hardly call a

south american red tailed catfish

calm and laid back.

[Mod edit: update common name to match Cat-eLog name --Mats]

[sidguppy]

300 litre is too small for Sorubim

they almost reach 2 feet in length. I've seen em this size, usually brought back specimen.

Pimelodus is really nice, but very active in my experience.

maybe if Cephalosilurus is too big (I underestimated it's size!), Pseudopimelodus will do?

[Richard B]

My bad - i was thinking lophiosilurus (pac man) when you said Cephalosilurus

[Viktor Jarikov]

Sorubim lima's max size is quoted at 2'. My impression from the ID threads here on sorubim limas is that 90% of the time they turn out to be S. elongatus with a max size at 11" and that is only assumed from the failure of those fish to grow beyond 1'. It is very challenging for an ordinary hobbyist to tell lima from elongatus. http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... +elongatus

[MatsP]

The problem with Sorubim fishes is that they may not all be the same species in the trade. I'm also not convinced that the size in the cat-elog is correct, as it's a recently described species, the size in captivity may not be quite clear yet. And of course, a 11"/33cm fish that is a pretty fast ambush predator will require a fair bit of tank-space - certainly not suitable for a traditional tank of around 4ft/1.2m x 18"-20"/45-50cm base area and 22-24"/55-60cm height, which most 300 liter tanks would be like.

--
Mats

[sidguppy]

odd that

90% of the Sorubims over here are the ones that will grow big

i've seen plenty of em and even helped rehousing a fair number, but the variety or species that gets at least 50 cm TL is the most common here.

at 11" they're still youngsters.
it's more common encountering one that's already well beyond 1 foot in length than a tiny one, unless it's the season for small freshly imported ones.

so there is a dwarf species around?
shame that's so rare over here then.

[racoll]

Sorubim lima's max size is quoted at 2'. My impression from the ID threads here on sorubim limas is that 90% of the time they turn out to be S. elongatus with a max size at 11" and that is only assumed from the failure of those fish to grow beyond 1'.

This was my understanding, also. However, if as Mats says, the tank is only likely to be 18" wide, then

Sorubim

would not be the best choice.

A fish of up to 9" would be more ideal.

Chrysichthys ornatus

is a good suggestion. How about

Anaspidoglanis macrostoma

(not really predatory though)?

[Viktor Jarikov]

I surely believe you, Sid. And we did touch on this apparent and strange contradiction before in other threads.

I have never, ever seen a lima/elongatus-looking sorubim longer than 11" - not in LFSs (and I always look first and foremost at trade-ins), not in hobbyist tanks, not on photos (with a ruler). Not that I am all that experienced. It is as puzzling to me as it must be to you. If one asked me if there are big fish of that kind known, your info is the only thing that would let me say: yes, there are.