Parotocinclus sp. Nanay Eanea

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 11 Feb 2012, 05:41

Some may remain pale. I had a couple which did.
Maybe a normal color variation or possibly a different related species? I would not lose hope unless it definitely is dying or dead.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 11 Feb 2012, 06:52

Your optimism is very much appreciated Larry. He was slightly wobbly and gilling pretty rapidly compared to the others. I hope hes nice and vibrant (or not) as long as he's kicking. IMO/E if newly acquired fauna lasts the first night you have a pretty good chance of survival.

Does anyone know if these guys like to feed on raw veggies like zucchini, squash or maybe some fruits? I think in one of the articles/papers on the Rip Nanay it was said that one of the factors contributing to the thriving Discus population was the abundance of fruit trees that inhabited the banks of the river. They didn't mention any specific types though.

dw1305 · Post by **dw1305** » 11 Feb 2012, 08:21

Hi all,

Does anyone know if these guys like to feed on raw veggies like zucchini, squash or maybe some fruits? I think in one of the articles/papers on the Rip Nanay it was said that one of the factors contributing to the thriving Discus population was the abundance of fruit trees that inhabited the banks of the river. They didn't mention any specific types though.

I'd definitely feed cucumber or courgette and I'd allow it to get really soft before I removed it from the tank. The problem with fruit like Mango would be that they have a lot more sugars (and for Papaya proteins) in them and they will have the potential to be a lot more polluting.

cheers Darrel

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 11 Feb 2012, 14:29

I always keep zucchini in the tank. It took the Nanno's a couple of weeks to start munching on it. The female just absolutely loves it. She pretty much stays on a slice when she finds it. I presume it will take a while for the Paro's. But, they are pretty much staying on the perimeter of the tank at the moment. They haven't ventured to any spot (that I've seen at least) in the middle. I'm getting ready to trim back those balls of Java moss to expose the wood again so that might help.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 11 Feb 2012, 18:59

I fed mine pieces of dried seaweed held in a clip once in awhile but Spirulina sticks seemed to keep them happy and healthy.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 12 Feb 2012, 04:09

Had a busy day at the office so didn't have much time to be on the CPU but I'm extremely happy to report that the 4 that made through the transit were all happily foraging this morning. I have to check my need to constantly feed the tank in hopes of fattening them up more quickly. I have a plethora of specialty CRS foods (shirakura algae rectangles/white powder stuff, Mosura algae bites, could of other Asia only algae foods, multiple veggie flakes, etc) and I see no reason they wouldn't benefit from these types of products as the shrimp do.

But after one whole day I haven't found them to gravitate to any one product yet. I never found any definitive info on their diet but with the mouthed they have developed its safe to say they ate algae eaters predominantly in their natural settings I think.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 12 Feb 2012, 20:08

I bet the algae shrimp foods are really good for these fish.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 12 Feb 2012, 20:32

apistomaster wrote:I bet the algae shrimp foods are really good for these fish.

While doing some serious research last night I came on a thread on a four that you made back in 07' where there was speculation that these or P.type 3 were perhaps thought to be the fry of L229 I think. It's funny if you Google a subject for long enough what you can find!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 12 Feb 2012, 21:46

I remember that speculation.
It seemed obvious to me that they were a dwarf Loricariidae species and not the fry of any other species.
I am sending out feelers to every internet fish dealer I trust about the possibilities of getting 20 to 25 specimens.
I think they are enough like C. hastatus and Otocinclus that they would be easier to breed in permanent colony style breeding set ups like I use for C. hastatus. My former group did go through many of the pre-spawn behaviors but I think I should have been keeping them in cooler water. I had them with the Black Darter Tetras and was keeping them in the low 80's. I think 75*F to no more than 80*F would be more appropriate for these fish.
Breeding these fish is on my "bucket list".

I think my group may have spawned occasionally but Black Darter Tetras prefer live foods and are classic ambush predators so if I ever had any fry hatch they would have been eaten soon after.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 12 Feb 2012, 23:22

Well then my shrimp tank should be perfect!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 13 Feb 2012, 02:59

bsmith wrote:Well then my shrimp tank should be perfect!

I agree. My plan is to keep a colony of Tiger Shrimp with mine if and when I can find a good source of these catfish.
I used to have Cherry Shrimp living in every tank where they could survive but for now all I am raising are the wild type Tiger Shrimp. I really like Tiger Shrimp. Among my particular type of Tiber Shrimp the males have a dash or red/orange on their uropod( tail flipper).
Once it warms up I plan to buy a starter group of one of the most brilliant red strains. I can easily get some Cherry Shrimp from a friend but his strain is rather plain compared to the higher grade Cherry Shrimp. Once you get any of the easier shrimp going they can provide an abundant supply so I figure I might as well get the most colorful form I can find.
My Tiger Shrimp seem pretty adaptable similar to Cherry Shrimp because those I placed in some of my Hypancistrus and Peckoltia compta are doing alright at about 84*F but they do really well in the original 20 long colony where the water temperature is rarely more than 78*F.
If you can keep your aquariums less than 78*F during the summer then Crystal Red or crystal black Shrimp should make a particularly pretty combination. I found I couldn't keep CRS year around because sometime in May we begin having 90*F days or even higher. I learned this the hard way. I began with 20 one fall and had at least 300 by the following May. When the heat arrived, water temps exceeded 82*F and I lost them all within the first week of hot weather.

Keeping ornamental shrimp with small fish is a good way to go in the new popular Nano-tanks although I prefer raising my Shrimp in large numbers so the smallest tanks I use are 20 longs except for the newer groups I added to my 40 gal pleco breeding set ups.
I always kept shrimp colonies with my Corydoras hastatus and C. habrosus breeding colonies and I never had any problems with the Shrimp bothering catfish eggs or newly hatched fry.
I often use some filter floss inside my siphon hose gravel vac tube to prevent losing fry and smaller shrimp. Not as effective but good enough to use in shrimp colonies which are large, I cover the inlet with a piece of nylon fly screen over the opening which is held in place by a heavy duty rubber band.

Sometimes I raise the common fresh water Ghost Glass Shrimp. It requires a different technique because their larvae are much smaller than Neocardina species but I have frequently produced hundreds of new shrimp from just three or four"berried" females. I place the ripe females in an 8 to 10 inch open mesh fish net hung in a well established planted tank. Very similar to using a breeding trap for live bearers. I remove each female after noticing her eggs have hatched. I then feed the apparently empty tank small amounts of fine food and a few newly hatched brine shrimp daily. In about three weeks I can usually begin to spot very small shrimp which have completed their metamorphosis and from there on they grow rapidly and may begin breeding at three or four months. They are good shrimp to keep with Discus once they are too large to be eaten, they engage in the feeding frenzies side by side with adult Discus and seem to handle the warm water well. They have such long antennae and hover around all the time like humming birds. I even was able to keep them with Dwarf Pike Cichlids. I meant to use them as fish food but Dwarf Pike Cichlids seem to prefer fish fry size live foods over 1 to 2 inch shrimp although your mileage may vary. These are not as useful as algae eaters as the Amano Shrimp but their boldness and high activity levels assures they make an interesting addition plus they do help eat the finer bits of food that the Discus often ignore.
My affection for keeping shrimp doesn't show much, huh?

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 13 Feb 2012, 22:24

Grrr....lost one of my little ones. Somehow wedged himself between a rock and the wall. Dad gummit! I have to rethink some scaping now. Unless I have perfectly flat rocks, I probably won't be able to have any against the glass making a rock wall.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 14 Feb 2012, 20:26

I think the paler of the four may have succumbed to deaths invite. But iLife can't be sure, only I have not seen the four of them at the same time.

I also think that shrimp are a very beneficial inhabitant to a tank. They keep things clean and also a a needed spice of activity as well.

I have some pics I'll post up as soon as I'm back onmy desktop.

But these don't look quite like the ones in the catelog maybe they are just not old enough?

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 14 Feb 2012, 22:07

Hopefully the smaller tank will allow you to get some good pics. I'm havin a whale of a time tryin.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 14 Feb 2012, 23:23

See what I mean about the high loss rate?
I bought mine from a different source and did not lose any out of 20.
They aren't as delicate as they look given half a chance.

matti2uude · Post by **matti2uude** » 15 Feb 2012, 04:21

I picked up 8 of them today.

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James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 15 Feb 2012, 12:41

I would have to say that thier only draw back is their size. Being how small they are they can easily get stuck in tight spots (as I have found). Other than that, they seem to be holding thier own. Acclimated well and remain extremely active.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 15 Feb 2012, 17:12

I found a dead one this morning. Looked perfectly healthy, just stiff!

Here are the pics I took a couple days ago.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 15 Feb 2012, 17:14

Being that two were DOA. If two survive ill be happy, I guess. I just will have to order more when it warms a bit.

James0816 · Post by **James0816** » 15 Feb 2012, 17:20

Aren't they just adorable!

matti2uude · Post by **matti2uude** » 15 Feb 2012, 17:44

Here's a couple of pics of mine.

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nvcichlids · Post by **nvcichlids** » 15 Feb 2012, 18:18

how big are these guys? Those shrimp make them look TINY!

matti2uude · Post by **matti2uude** » 15 Feb 2012, 19:10

They are almost the same size as the shrimp only slightly smaller.

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apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 15 Feb 2012, 19:40

nvcichlids wrote:how big are these guys? Those shrimp make them look TINY!

Hi nv,
The females get to a maximum size of barely 3/4 inch while the males may run only about 5/8 inch.
They are amazingly small Loracariidids.

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 17 Feb 2012, 23:54

I have asked www.thewetspottropicalfish.com, Anthony Perry about getting up to 25 of of these for about $9.00 each.
He says he is looking into it but the exporter who has them doesn't have a lot of other fish they need.
If enough of us requested them I am sure he would get them in.
They hold their new fish for at least a week before they sell them so the fish get a chance to recover and get stabilized.
So it would be helpful if they had some more requests for these neat little Loricariidae.
If you live west of the Rockies the freight won't be bad.
Last time I ordered a box of ~200 fish and overnight deliver cost me only about $50.
Their customer service is good so you won't have trouble getting credit for documenting any fish DOA on arrival.
I want a bunch so anyone else who is interested would help us all get some.

bsmith · Post by **bsmith** » 18 Feb 2012, 00:19

apistomaster wrote:I have asked http://www.thewetspottropicalfish.com, Anthony Perry about getting up to 25 of of these for about $9.00 each.
He says he is looking into it but the exporter who has them doesn't have a lot of other fish they need.
If enough of us requested them I am sure he would get them in.
They hold their new fish for at least a week before they sell them so the fish get a chance to recover and get stabilized.
So it would be helpful if they had some more requests for these neat little Loricariidae.
If you live west of the Rockies the freight won't be bad.
Last time I ordered a box of ~200 fish and overnight deliver cost me only about $50.
Their customer service is good so you won't have trouble getting credit for documenting any fish DOA on arrival.
I want a bunch so anyone else who is interested would help us all get some.

Sign me up. Id take 10-15!

apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 18 Feb 2012, 00:27

Bsmith,
Let them know since I am just another customer.
All I stand to gain is a better chance of at least getting some from a source I trust.

matti2uude · Post by **matti2uude** » 18 Feb 2012, 18:49

I lost one today. They don't seem to be eating. I've been giving them veggie and spirulina sticks. I'm going to try some zucchini today.

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apistomaster · Post by **apistomaster** » 18 Feb 2012, 19:06

matti2uude wrote:I lost one today. They don't seem to be eating. I've been giving them veggie and spirulina sticks. I'm going to try some zucchini today.

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I do not think you did anything wrong.
If they do not arrive in good condition the losses are high much like it is with Otocinclus cocama. There should not be any of these fish arrive DOA. If there are then that is a bad sign.
Mine survived for two years on Spirulina Sticks. After they ate all the algae in a 20 long within the first 48 hours that was all I feed them that they really liked. They were not very interested in algae wafers but I still gave them some occasionally. If nothing else, the shrimp will eat the wafers.
They really seem to need strong currents. Mine all died when my power head quit working. I had a 160 gph power head driven sponge filter and it was also the hottest time of the summer so temps were getting up to 86*F but that was fine in the previous summer but the power head was working fine then.
I would use the same power head driven sponge filter plus another air lift driven sponge filter and an air stone in my next set up.
They do best in larger groups too so I would never try fewer than six. I plan to get 25 this time and keep them with Zebra Shrimp.